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exactly, the limiting factor is not the memorystick, but the speed of the fastport interface.
I dont find it to be a problem, its plenty fast for everyday use. 20mb in a minut is not problem. Thats atleast 40 pictures, and I usually dont take more than 40 pictures pr. day.
After all its not everyday you need to transfer 512-1024 mb to/from the memorycard. If so I dont find using a cardreader to be a problem.
I find the serial speed of the internal memory more annoying, but not really much either. I only use the internal memory to store things that dont need to be moved back and forth all the time. Themes, ringtones, games etc. Everything else I keep on my 512mb memorycard, and the camera is set to store pictures on the memorycard also.
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Posted: 2005-08-11 10:55:30
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Well it depends. I have a w800 with a 1GB MSDP and I use it like a music player .. so i transfer and mix around the songs abit in and out of the MSDP quite regularly.
Removing the MSDP and using the card reader daily can be quite annoying..
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Posted: 2005-08-11 13:40:14
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true, but you propably dont move 1gb each day do you ?
Its not feasable that people should have the time to listen to 1gb of mp3's and need to renew 1gb of mp3 each and every single day ?
I dont beleive that
I also dont think people normally need to move mp3's from their phone to the computer before putting new mp3's on it, normally they are allready on the pc, thats where they came from to start with. Organising and deleting files allready on the phone are not limited by the transferspeed. So basically most of the time we are only talking transfers from the pc to the phone.
even when used for music its most likely not much more than 100mb each day on an average that gets moved to the phone, often in pieces, and thats max 5min total
I still dont see the big problem, I move alot of 6-8 mb musicvideos to the phone regularly, and never feel its a problem, takes a few seconds each, so what ? Even moving 100-200mb is no problem, I start the transfer and go take a leak, or put the coffeekettle on, and when I get back in 5-10 minuttes its done.
Whats the rush ?
[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-08-11 13:00 ]
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Posted: 2005-08-11 13:54:07
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Quote:
On 2005-08-11 13:54:07, numb wrote:
true, but you propably dont move 1gb each day do you ?
Its not feasable that people should have the time to listen to 1gb of mp3's and need to renew 1gb of mp3 each and every single day ?
I dont beleive that
I also dont think people normally need to move mp3's from their phone to the computer before putting new mp3's on it, normally they are allready on the pc, thats where they came from to start with. Organising and deleting files allready on the phone are not limited by the transferspeed. So basically most of the time we are only talking transfers from the pc to the phone.
even when used for music its most likely not much more than 100mb each day on an average that gets moved to the phone, often in pieces, and thats max 5min total
I still dont see the big problem, I move alot of 6-8 mb musicvideos to the phone regularly, and never feel its a problem, takes a few seconds each, so what ? Even moving 100-200mb is no problem, I start the transfer and go take a leak, or put the coffeekettle on, and when I get back in 5-10 minuttes its done.
Whats the rush ?
[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-08-11 13:00 ]
Its not so much of being in a rush. It is a simple comparison of customer experience for someone like me who owns both an ipod and a w800.
With itunes and ipod, I am able to synch itunes amd ipod music automicatically, the the option of shuffle to manage the music content in my player easily.
However, w800 presently does NOT have an excellent software that manages this well. So I rely on hopefully as fast or nearly as fast a transfer speed as an ipod to manage my music files by windows copy and paste. And yes, I do play around with chunks of music every 2 days (I have many music albums and I have a 5GB 1st Gen Ipod)... and I also subscribe to Podcasts which have new episodes each day.
Do not get me wrong. It is still the best 2G phone I would recommend available now. And I think SE is taking the right step to recapture the digital music market. BUT as a walkman to compete directly/ indirectly to an ipod shuffle, it falls somewhat short in this area (speed of file transfer, music synching, shuffle capability)
{Btw, I bought the phone NOT as a substitute to the ipod, but I genuinely like its overall package and it will be even better if it can act as a backup to my main player when it is troublesome to carry both around}
Also I was questioning the technical part of its speed limitations. Because in terms of hardware, both USB 2.0 hi speed and memory stick duo pro will definitely provide a really high speed of data transfer (5MB/2 sec achievable). I am simple asking if anyone knows what this limitation is due to... firmware, memory etc?
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Posted: 2005-08-12 10:46:17
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Ok, the w800i is marketed as a walkman? Therefore it's moving into iPod/iPod shuffle marketing areas, so comparing them is valid.
Its clear the w800 as some limitations as a music device. Limitations it shouldn't have to be honest. The FastPort was redesigned in the k750 to increase the speed vs the older type.
iPod shuffle -> great software support on the PC/Mac with iTunes (including autofill).
iPod shuffle -> high speed transfer rate (~1 song/sec)
Waiting 6 minutes to transfer an album of mp3s to the phone, vs 12 secs on the iPod is a BIG difference. That's pretty damn poor!
[ This Message was edited by: JasonDeFaoite on 2005-08-12 10:05 ]
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Posted: 2005-08-12 11:04:35
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The fastport is not USB2 Highspeed (480mbps), its only USB2 full speed (12mbps) which is why this is a limiting factor.
I never made any comparison between Ipod and W800 and never said you could not make a valid comparison, but simply looked at the device (w800/k750) as a phone with multimedia capabilities, camera/video/music. I dont consider w800 to be a competitor to Ipod, just as the Ipod is not a competitor to w800. The Ipod lacks many capabilities of the w800 (phone, video, camera etc.) W800 is not primarily a music player like Ipod. Its primarily a phone, with alot of other posibilites. From that perspective I dont find the speed of the fast port to be a problem allthough naturally I wouldent complain if it was as fast as an Ipod.
I review these posibilities from a different angle than you. To me its not a question of comparing it to the Ipod, I personally find the comparison silly as the devices are to different. I also have an Ipod, it serves a different purpose and are optimized for that
Others may have a different angle on this, and I respect that. I do understand and also agree on the points regarding userexperience with software and speed etc. as a directe competitor to the Ipod. Naturally you can make a valid comparison between the Ipod and the W800, if your angle is that the W800 should serve as an Ipod.
I just disagree that these devices are direct/indirect compititors. I find the devices to different no matter how much walkman labeled the w800 is
[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-08-12 10:54 ]
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Posted: 2005-08-12 11:51:58
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I just want to point out that USB2 Full-Speed is not the limiting factor.
K750i transfers in 2.5Mbps, not 12Mbps. That's only 20% of Full-Speed.
It's not Low-Speed either, cause that's 1.5Mbps.
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Posted: 2005-08-12 12:11:25
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#abe2000
That is absolutely correct. The fastport speed is not the only limiting factor, that was a misinterpretation on my point, but I wanted to point out that the fastport is not USB2 Highspeed.
True, actual transferspeed does not fully utilize the fastport USB2 full speed.
This could be due to settings in windows for hot plugging. Default settings in windows of removable drive in K750 is optimised for safety, so you can remove the device without using the manuel unplug feature. In this setting all read/write caching is turned off both for the device and for windows. You can change it to be optimised for speed under properties, then caching will be turned on, but you will need to use the unplug feature to unplug it safely. I have not made any speedtest under these settings but theoretically this should speed up the transferspeed.
Another limitation could be the devices ability to read/write to the ms duo's theoretical max read/write speed. If so, this could maybe be improved in firmwareupdates unless its due to some kind of hardwarelimitation.
[ This Message was edited by: numb on 2005-08-12 12:52 ]
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Posted: 2005-08-12 13:19:52
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Hi Numb
Fair points, but I'll guess we will ave to agree to disagree on this one
In my view, SE are marketing this as a walkman phone. I feel the comparison to the iPod is warranted because of this. This is different to how the k750 is marketed (primarily an imaging device). I know they are the same, but this is how SE are marketing the products to costumers.
As a walkman, the w800 isn't what it could have been. I have to say the sound is pretty damn good though. However since SE were redesigning the port for the K750 onwards, and making all the older accessories non compatible, more should have been done to "future proof" it. In 2 years, a USB 2 FS link will be a significant limitation, unless we are looking at another redesign (bye bye accessories again).
Personally I feel its a problem now. Maybe next year, on the next models with the same performance, then you'll agree with me
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Posted: 2005-08-13 01:56:53
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Sigh.... looks like I will have to bring my ipod around still
Thanks Numb for the clarification on the USB 2 speeds....
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Posted: 2005-08-13 04:16:47
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