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well, it's like I said before, Halal is killing in the name of God and when killing the animal for food, it is killed with the minimum amount of pain as possible. (or at least as we think is possible).

Like in some Animal processing plants, they hang sheep by the legs and slit their throats to let them bleed to death, Islam is against that, an animal would be killed with one swift movement.
To vegetarians, they might say its still killing an animal, but from an objective point of view, at least it's an attempt to cause the minimal amount of harm, for those who are meat eaters.
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Posted: 2006-01-29 17:41:18
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halal meat...is not just any old meat cut in any old way...
ask ur butcher how they kill the animal to sell to you...today in the 21st century...there are many methods of slaughtering animals...commonly they may just shoot the poor thing, they may catch it and bleed it to death, or most commonly today they may electricute it...electricuting is probably the most common, and science has showed that the poor animals brain explodes internally due to the power of the electricution...this to me is cold blooded murder!
today it is a scientifically proven fact...i am not making it up...u can research and find out for yourself...
when meat is halal, it is cut in a special kind of way...the usual stuff, but the place where the animal is cut from...is usually just below the neck...or somewhere thereabouts...scientific facts, scientific research has showed that by cutting from this place, the animal loses it feeling of pain...therefore the rest of the process is absoloutly not hurting the animal in anyway...so overall the animal feels less pay cutting the 'halal' way than any other way...
remember this is all scientifically proven...
if u wanna to learn more about this concept or anyother...
http://www.aswatalislam.net/D[....]leID=2054&TitleName=Zakir_Naik
this speaker is great...listin to words...if u go slightly down the page...theres alot of stuff on meat or being vegeterian and so on...worth a listen if u got time...
kindest regards


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Posted: 2006-01-29 17:47:42
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I would have thought that the most humane way of killing an animal for food these days would be to shoot it in the head, resulting in near instantaneous death. Furthermore I would have said that it would also be humane to only kill the necessary number of animals that are required instead of killing more than are required and thus having meat go to waste and hence cause suffering and death to animals unnecessarily.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-01-29 17:18 ]
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Posted: 2006-01-29 18:15:19
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i agree that animals should not ever be put into pain and/or suffering...
im not sure about shooting an animal at its head...but it is A SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN fact that the way halal meat is cut, its causes less pain to the animal than nearly all modern methods...
just to clear confusion/misunderstanding...
halal meat...is not a special type of meat or anything....
if meat is halal it means the animal in question has been cut in an ethical way...which will cause the animal the least amount of pain possible...
this is the reason why muslims only eat (or are suppose to eat) halal meat...because most other ways hamr the animal more...
islam is a way of life...which has the utmost respect for everything...everything that is islamically wrong, is generally morally and ethically wrong...
kindest regards
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Posted: 2006-01-29 21:53:39
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And just for those who don't know,Halal Meat for muslims and Kosher for jewish people is sacrificed in the exact same ways as described in the Quran and the Torah and both religions have allowed consumption of each others meat and all food products.
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Posted: 2006-01-29 22:30:03
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Quote:
On 2006-01-29 21:53:39, dealer3 wrote:
...
im not sure about shooting an animal at its head...but it is A SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN fact that the way halal meat is cut, its causes less pain to the animal than nearly all modern methods...
...


Your statement is plainly ridiculous!

I have been to an abattoir, which specialised in slaughtering cattle. The process is as follows: 1) The animal (which is about to be killed) is led to a room segregated from the other animals. 2) A device (similar in principle to a pistol or revolver) is swiftly placed on its head and fired. 3) A steel bolt pierces the skull and brain of the animal. 4) The animal dies within milliseconds.

Even if your claim (which is purportedly: "...SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN..."), that "...the way halal meat is cut, its causes less pain to the animal than nearly all modern methods..." could be taken for fact, you neglect to consider the sentient qualities of an animal.

If you could provide evidence that all the pain receptors within the nervous system of the animal had somehow been disabled by way of the halal method of slaughter, I would be very interested (as would quite a large proportion of the international scientific community).

If we assumed that your postulation regarding the negation of pain caused to an animal slaughtered by halal methods was in in fact true, then you completely disregard the aforementioned sentient aspect of the creature. Whilst it may not feel pain, it would seem likely that it would experience that it was being killed, which in my mind would seem to be vastly distressing to any creature, be it human or bovine. A swift death would seem preferable.

A virtually instantaneous death is achieved by way of modern methods of animal slaughter. The prolonged process of death provided by halal slaughtering can never be preferred when considering the welfare of the animal (I realise that considering an animal's welfare in conjunction with its killing could seem paradoxical, however the suffering of the animal would be minimised by a swift death).

If your religion requires that animals be slaughtered in a certain way, then that is fine with me (to a certain degree). However, it is ridiculous to attempt to put this method of slaughter forward as a humane option.
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Posted: 2006-01-30 02:19:46
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Quote:
On 2006-01-30 02:19:46, london-uk wrote:

Your statement is plainly ridiculous!

I have been to an abattoir, which specialised in slaughtering cattle. The process is as follows: 1) The animal (which is about to be killed) is led to a room segregated from the other animals. 2) A device (similar in principle to a pistol or revolver) is swiftly placed on its head and fired. 3) A steel bolt pierces the skull and brain of the animal. 4) The animal dies within milliseconds.

And your basically saying that a bullet through the head of the animal is not painfull for the creature?..from all the books ive read it says that death is painfull in all living creatures regardless of how quick it is..Maybe they do die in a milisecond or however long it takes for the creature to die,but i have read that animals which are slaughtered the Islamic or Jewish way suffer less aswell because the way the knife us used the blood drains away from the brain at a excellerated rate which in turn puts the animal into sleep and then death....somehow the idea of blowing the animals brains out with a automatic weapon does'nt seem like a painless and humane way to slaughter the creature.
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Posted: 2006-01-30 02:53:57
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Quote:
On 2006-01-30 02:53:57, axxxr wrote:

And your basically saying that a bullet through the head of the animal is not painfull for the creature?..from all the books ive read it says that death is painfull in all living creatures regardless of how quick it is..Maybe they do die in a milisecond or however long it takes for the creature to die,but i have read that animals which are slaughtered the Islamic or Jewish way suffer less aswell because the way the knife us used the blood drains away from the brain at a excellerated rate which in turn puts the animal into sleep and then death....somehow the idea of blowing the animals brains out with a automatic weapon does'nt seem like a painless and humane way to slaughter the creature.



A shot to the head, which induces death on a near instantaneous level will inherently cause less physical suffering to an animal than a slaughter method which lasts longer. The shorter the time span of the suffering for the animal the better.

Wrapping the bullet method in emotive language is disingeneous; I would very much doubt whether those working in slaughterhouses are treating the killing of animals in quite the gangster like terms you have portrayed. We had someone who has actually been to a slaughterhouse explain the process above and it sounds about as humane as we can hope for with the means we have.

An interesting point was raised about the sentience displayed by the animal. I am not a vet or a zoologist by any means, but I know that most animals (humans included) would likely be scared if someone were cutting them open with a knife whether they could feel pain or not. It would seem to me that that is also suffering and that if one can end the animal's life as quickly as possible then one will reduce both the physical suffering and the state of fear the animal may be experiencing.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-01-30 02:07 ]
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Posted: 2006-01-30 03:05:28
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agree scots. another forgotten aspect about this debate: halal meat must also be killed by muslim and in muslim lands. Currently Australia exports meat live to muslim countries so that it can be killed "halal" way. The trouble is the animals are kept in appaling inhumane conditions for months while they travel overseas to their destination. It is much cheaper and more humane to kill an animal and transport it frozen, than to make it suffer for long months. Not only that the animals are sick and many die on the journey.

So where's the compasion of muslim countries that demand we transport the meat to them live? Because fundamentalists DEMAND that the meat must be slaughtered by the strick standards of halal, the animals suffer more than they need to.

I agree that halal started off as a means of painless killing, in the days before modern technology had reliable quick means of death. But the muslim halal tradition is stuck in the past. Because of religious fundamentalism, muslims won't update the halal method, so animals must suffer more than necessary.

I have nothing against open minded muslims, but fundementalism is not about faith but about dogma. I don't like it and I think it's wrong that they won't allow the meat to be killed prior to transport. It's disgusting and narrow minded.
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Posted: 2006-01-30 03:53:25
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@max_wedge

With respect let's not bandy around terms like 'fundamentalism' and 'narrow minded' as generalisations please. Observing religious practices does not necessarily make one a fundamentalist.

The religious belief should not be the issue here since it is looking to minimise suffering. That isn't a bad thing and many Muslims will likely be in favour of halal because of that; it seeks to lessen the suffering of the animal being killed for food.

Where I would question the halal method is if there is a viable alternative that causes less suffering to the animal. The transportation issue is important though since it too can cause suffering; the suffering of the animal is not just in the final moments of its life.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-01-30 04:10 ]
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Posted: 2006-01-30 04:10:09
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