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> Polyphonic sound quality !
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Summing it all up, the concept is fairly simple.
look @ nokia's polytones.
how many instruments @ once? FOUR actaully, THREE. the last channel is stricly for percussion.
can it play midi? NO! NONONONONO! except for maybe those four tone ones.
Nokia's polyspeakers are not meant for midi. coz the quality SUCKS. its meant to play .mmf files, which are strictly miditones for nokia. not to mention the old samsungs. not too sure about the newer samsungs though.
look @ SE's polytones.
how many instruments 2 once? 32.
can it play midi? yes. oh, and .mmf too.
and the supported instruments are far more than nokia's. makes it sounds like its being played on a pc.
=D
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Posted: 2003-06-05 14:01:09
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On 2003-06-05 14:01:09, Wyvern wrote:
look @ nokia's polytones.
how many instruments @ once? FOUR actaully, THREE.
This is device specific: polyphony level in Nokia phones varies from 4 to 24. One MIDI track can include up to 65 diffrent instruments.
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can it play midi? NO! NONONONONO! except for maybe those four tone ones.
Yes, Nokia MIDI capable phones play standard GM1 and SP-MIDI files.
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Nokia's polyspeakers are not meant for midi. coz the quality SUCKS. its meant to play .mmf files, which are strictly miditones for nokia.
Nokia doesn't support .mmf.
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...
and the supported instruments are far more than nokia's. makes it sounds like its being played on a pc.
Supported instruments are not specified by Nokia or SE, but MMA. Nokia phones comply GM1 instrument bank. And as far as I know, so does SE.
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Posted: 2003-06-05 14:52:01
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To compose high quality ring tones, one should have the original sound banks for the target phone, or at least know the correct MIDI mappings. It is best to have the original sound banks, because then you can preview the melody exactly as it will sound on the phone.
[ This Message was edited by: wrath000 on 2003-06-05 13:57 ]
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Posted: 2003-06-05 14:56:46
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wrath000
So how do we get hold of the sound banks for a target phone? Does SE publish them?
Can you recommend a good (free) midi composer? I've just bought a T610 and would like to compose some of my own ringtones.
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Posted: 2003-06-05 15:08:08
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I am actually on the lookout for the soundbanks myself. The actual instrument mappings are published in the T610 whitepaper. So if the use the original Roland General MIDI wavetables it's just to extract the intstruments from there. However I don't know who's wavetables they use.
It's really not that important to have the exact same wavetables unless you want a perfect duplicate of the T610 sound on the PC (which sure helps when you are making music)
So, if you read the instrument maps in the White Paper, you are well on your way.
As for MIDI composer, I use qbase which is neither simple nor free, but it's a very powerfull sequencer. You can check out
http://www.maz-sound.com/ Probably find something you can use there.
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Posted: 2003-06-05 15:23:05
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@Wyvern
SMAF (.MMF) is actually superior to MIDI. MMF can contain both synthesized music and digitized speech. The full MMF specification also includes graphics. All played in sync.
http://smaf-yamaha.com/
@orange
Actually, Nokia Series 40 and Series 60 phones have completely different MIDI specs. Series 40 only has 29 melodic instruments and 14 percussive instruments.
Series 60 has the standard 128 melodic and 47 percussive.
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Posted: 2003-06-05 15:29:42
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ok lot of posts here, with the usual truths, and half truths,, and plenty of "Nokia & Samsung" bashing without knowing full facts, that is well known on this forum.
Let me tell you first, I own a Yamaha PSR 290 keyboard, a LIVE with full Roland GS Banks, a T300, a P800, and have had good experience with a Nokia 3650, Samsung T100, Nokia 3510 & 7210. so what i am gonna say comes from knowledge.
First off, none symbian phones.
Nokias non-symbian phones range from crap (3510 with 3+1 poly, with 'basic' sound banks) to mediocre, 7210. The samsungs have a better set of instrumentsand a louder "bassy" speaker. However, the quality crown definately goes to SE. The t300, and t610 has great sounding poly from good banks and a good sound processor. The T300 was quiet, and the T610 is louder. Best Ringtone in my opinion is Moonstar, and Dilemma. Seimens comes between SE and samsung.
In Symbian phones the poly is handled by beatnik software, and is entirely based on the provided banks. The P800 and 7650 easily ships with the worst bank out of all the Symbian Phones i have seen, and MIDI, although loud and 16 channels.. is basically pants. Nokia 3610 comes with a better bank, which although cant touch the T300/T610 is a vast improvement. You CAN use that same bank on the P800, however, it does delay playback, as the bank has to be loaded and uncompressed each time you play a midi file (fast as the processor is on the P800, its still not fast enough not to cause a delay of a couple of seconds). There is a 490KB Beatnik Bank available which vastly improves the P800 and other symbian devices based on Beatnik right up to almost T300 quality.. but an almost 10 second loading time is OUCH!
Best thing to do for the P800 and other symbian phones is to use a Wave File sampled at 16 bits, 22 Khz Mono, and saved as IMA ADPCM. the quality is superb, especially if u make smart use of an equaliser, and normaliser to adjust the volumet to optimal levels. My ring tone is a recording of Bobble Bobble, and sounds authentic.
unless we can get the symbian phones to load banks into memory at startup, ther eis no other option.
As for MMF, yes it is format that stores Sample data, as well as Sequencing Data. Symbian phones can use Beatniks RMF files with are a similar principle. However i know the non symbian Noks and SE, do NOT support it. AFAIK, only Samsung supports it.
SO best non symbian playback is SE, and best Symbian playback is Nokia.
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Posted: 2003-06-05 16:03:56
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@orange, the 3+1 speakers are used in the 3510. sorry, forgot to mention that most nokia phones from the 7210 onwards has improved ones, but still not 32-tone polyphonic.
also, i sent a .mmf file to a 6610 it worked. i sent a .midi file to a 6610, it didnt work. the phone said "fie format not supported."
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Posted: 2003-06-05 16:09:18
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I converted all my MIDI to rmf with Beatnik Converter but the load time still exists! Its exactly the same delay as a MIDI file.
The only benefit I can c from converting MIDI>RMF is that the file sizes were significantly reduced, eg. 52k>8k, but Im assuming the loading into RAM of the beatnik patch by the P800 is still the major reason for the delay.
My understanding was that a RMF file is like a WAV file...guess I misunderstood, after not seeing a change in delay. I now presume an RMF is basically a cleaned up and trimmed MIDI file?
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Posted: 2003-06-05 17:19:19
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On 2003-06-05 15:29:42, FRiC wrote:
@orange
Actually, Nokia Series 40 and Series 60 phones have completely different MIDI specs. Series 40 only has 29 melodic instruments and 14 percussive instruments.
Series 60 has the standard 128 melodic and 47 percussive.
As I said both Series40 and Series 60 phones COMPLY with GM1. Series 40 phones just uses a mapping scheme for similar timbres using 29 melodic and 14 percussive instruments. Get the facts from
here.
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Posted: 2003-06-06 09:20:37
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