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OH good thing I didn't say anything earlier on - as I was gonna say "he's done the hard part (geting the application to access the calls list"

Well anyway good luc still and let us know when you'll be needing testers etc ... maybe it'll be ready by my NEXT months bill start date (15th July I think)

Cheers
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Posted: 2003-06-14 22:57:15
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Right then, to answer a few queries posted above...

@nlhall
Q>>how can the phone tell if it is the same or differant network ur calling?
A>>Yes, this is a bit messy, but current thinking is to maintain a list of same network numbers within the app. This list will probably be able to be built up manually by entering numbers, or preferably by selecting from your list of contacts. Another, probably slicker option is to give the app a mask which identifies all mobiles (e.g 07 in the UK) and then everytime the app is calculating what type of call it is, it will ask you whether it is on-net or x-net. Of course, the answer will be stored from then on and after a few weeks, hopefully the list will be fairly complete (depending on how you use your phone)

Q>>and also have you thought about the day of the month when ur mins get reset...
A>>Yeah, this is stored within the user specific Contract object which defines things like the start/end of your contract, and the billing day which together are used to calculate which period the user is in and therefore identify the calls made in this period.

@simion_levi
Q>>The offpeak500 tariff includes two sets of voicecalls - 500 to on-net, 50 to Xnet (both offpeak). I can't really add two separate 'inclusive' mins lines to the 'B' grouping, as there is no ON/X- net definition allowed for inclusive mins.
A>>I think this can be done by doing the following; 2 different buckets, and then a few different call types:

//set up 2 buckets with different names like below
B|1|1|N|0|On-net Off-Peak Calls|500
B|2|1|N|0|X-net Off-Peak Calls|50

// 3 call types (usage types):
//first catches 07 for off-peak, excludes on-net, assigned to bucket 2
//second gets 07 for off-peak, includes on-net*, assigned to bucket 1
//third gets 0 (landline) for off-peak, no overrides, bucket 1 also
C|1|1|X-net Off-Peak|N|Y|N|Y|N|07|2|30
C|2|1|On-net Off-Peak|Y|N|N|Y|N|07|1|2
C|2|1|Landline Off-Peak||N|N|Y|N|0|1|2
*my description of "includes same-net?" wasn't correct sorry: if this flag is set, then ONLY calls in the same-net numbers list will be caught by this call type, AND NO OTHERS.
Does this fit your requirements now?

Q>>Overcomplicated it a bit with local calls & landlines & on-net - don't bother; just class them all as ON-net. All inclusive minutes on all UK tariffs i know charge the same for off-peak on-net
A>>True, I was just trying to make the object as flexible as possible. By configuring the tariff in different ways, it is up to the user how complicated the breakdown is. In its simplest form, for things like Orange YP700, the user can have one bucket, one usage type and will basically just give a view on how many minutes have been used in one particular period. Some tariffs (like yours!) however, can get very complicated.

Q>>I would also suggest that you chop out weekends/evenings for just 'offpeak' - but i know that some tariffs used to differentiate between them
A>>Again, as above, its just there in case people want to use it, the tariff can be simplified if it is not needed; merge the 2 calls types into one by setting both flags for off-peak and weekend. I've written alot of logic already for working out whether a particular call "fits" into a usage type. There's some polishing to be done, but this is some of the easier stuff to achieve. I'm trying to accommodate all tariffs - basically every call you make that has a different price needs a different usage type.

Anyway, I hope this has answered some of your questions. Its all good though, keep the thoughts coming as it is helping a great deal to define things in my head. All constructive criticism is welcomed.
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Posted: 2003-06-16 10:37:47
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THIS PROGRAM IS A FUKIN NIGHTMARE - IT'S BULLSHIT - IT's ALL CRAP ....

oops- gotta be constructive with the ol' criticism!

Arf!

Anywayz cheers for keeping us up to date Julian - and I think I speak for everyone in saying thanks for all your efforts in this crucial program!! Gd Luck - Enjoy your holiday!
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Posted: 2003-06-16 18:41:46
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Hi,

I really like the idea of this program, have done ever since I saw the first post which gave birth to the whole idea.

My only concern is that if you are going to keep a separate list of numbers for working out who's on what network, won't the pogram get very bulky for people with large phone books. Is there not a way of amending the current phonebook.

I know that mobile numbers are distinguished from home numbers in the phonebook by having /m after the number, in the same way home numbers have /h and work numbers have /w. Is it possible to add another /, so that say an orange mobile number could be 078794571234/m/o.?

This is just a thought and could be totally impossible!

I look forward to further developments.
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Posted: 2003-06-17 00:28:22
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@randomyachtie

Hmmm, yep I like your thinking - I had a similar idea before about using one of the fields within the contact information to store their network allegiance - probably something that no-one uses like "home fax number" (don't start bleating about using this field - fax machines went out with stoneage!) Even better I suppose would be to let the user choose which field they want to use.

I like your idea with the /m/o though - I don't know anything about the internal workings of the phonebook - maybe you could shed some light on it if you know about these things? I just tried adding a "/o" to one of my contacts to see what happened - I was still able to call the number correctly, but the /o appears in the field all the time. Not really a big problem I suppose.

The only problem I can see with storing this info in the contacts on the phone is that the app has to do more work in looking up every number in the contacts db first to determine which network he/she is on - if this list is local, it will be a much easier check.

One thing I did notice though was that the call register on the phone seems to store the name of the contact you are calling too (i.e. hard stored, not a link that is built from the contacts db when you view the list). I think it is like this as I called someone I know before I put them in the contacts and the list forever says 07887XXXXXX Unknown. But after I have put him in the phone book it says 07887XXXXXX Mr Smith.
I remember noticing that other phones I have get this link at the time of viewing the list, but not the P800 it seems. It could prove useful if some contact info is laid down in the call list - maybe an identifier in the contact name could be used to identify on-net?

This is a key part of the program, so maybe it will be good to have a few options and the use can choose which one they want to use.
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Posted: 2003-06-17 11:58:53
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If I am not all wrong, this program is based on the UK phonenumbers? in Sweden we got like 0708 for Vodafone. Though they also own other number series. Would I then be able to use this program?
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Posted: 2003-06-17 12:15:55
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@Lordmike

The idea is that the program is generic, and should be usable in any country which has easy rules to follow for different call destinations. By configuring your tariff, it should be usable anywhere. I keep using UK as an example as that's where I live!

the "rules" in the uk are:

07 = mobile
01/02 = landline
0800/0808 = freephone
etc.

By releasing the tariff file format, I'm trying to to see if the model fits tariffs in other countries too, so if your interested, please see if you can write your tariff config in the format above!

Hope this explains it a bit more...
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Posted: 2003-06-17 13:16:18
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Correct me if I am wrong now... because I know NOTHING about this stuff.
C|2|1|Landline Off-Peak||N|N|Y|N|0|1|2
would be like prefix when you call 01xxxxxx and 02xxxxxx when making a call to someone.
So in sweden that could be
C|2|1|Landline Off-Peak||N|N|Y|N|0|1|2|3|4|5|6|8|9

We have prefixes or what you call them, like:
011 for Norrköping
08 for Stockholm etc.
Could post a complete list with uhm most of swedens "prefixes".

Feels like I am way outa my league here...

_________________
Lord Mikael
Service information for P800
Jogdial: Up * down down * down * and up * down * * down *
Check out:
http://renegade.w3xs.com/
http://p8004u.myikonboard.com/viewboard.php
http://www.p8004u.pwp.blueyonder.

[ This Message was edited by: Lordmike on 2003-06-17 16:24 ]
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Posted: 2003-06-17 17:24:02
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WOW!!! someone actually is on the idea i was about to ask....

of course i am in australia so hopefully it will be available to us over here..

a few days ago i was talking bout such a program with my partner and here it is.. someone on the idea...

Please keep up the work... is there a site i can go to and keep updates on your progress????

Also if you need someone from Australia to test it i shall certainly put up my hand!!..

cheers..

and keep it up...

i REALLY WANT THIS!!!!

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Posted: 2003-06-18 13:43:41
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@devilgrins
Uhm... we keep the progress here on this thread...

@all
If the thread is removed, I will have to open up my forum so the thread can stay alive. But then someone need to tell me about it first

_________________
Lord Mikael
Correct me if I am wrong, I am only here to learn and help.
Service information for P800
Jogdial: Up * down down * down * and up * down * * down *
Check out:
http://renegade.w3xs.com/
http://p8004u.myikonboard

[ This Message was edited by: Lordmike on 2003-06-18 12:47 ]
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Posted: 2003-06-18 13:46:37
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