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@ pleber

True, but on the other hand Israel isn't exactly a saint, and is using its military for every little minor incident. You could argue that Israel is no better than the terrorists. And in other countries terroists are not hunted down and bombed by military, but given a trial and sent to prison. Violence makes more violence.
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Posted: 2003-09-04 15:20:16
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You call blowing up a bus full of people and killing 21 on them "minor incident"????? Your joking, right?

"Israel no better than the terrorists"? No, you couldn't argue that at all. Israel do not target innocent people. They do not bomb civilian buses, or pool halls, or restaurants. Israel does not fire missiles randomly into Gaza etc.

Lets take a look at the country I live in. It adopted a very soft approach to terrorists. It let them all out of prison as long as they stopped fighting and gave up their arms. (I live in N.Ireland by the way).

Let me tell you a little true story.

Two "Loyalists" gave a young catholic a lift who was thumbing a lift home from work. They took him and beat him and fed his body through a farm machine.

These men are now out of prison thanks to "other countries terrorists are not hunted down and bombed by military, but given a trial and sent to prison" and the Good Friday agreement. They did less that 3 years in prison. They get to go home and live near their victims mother and family. Does that sound like a good idea to you?

Another story.

There was a young British soldier fatally wounded, lying crying in a woman’s front garden... (Wounded by the IRA). That woman put a pillow under his head.

Because of this act of compassion, the IRA kidnapped this woman, tortured her and shot her in the head. She was a widow and her TEN children stayed quiet about it for 6 MONTHS hoping the IRA would give their mother back.
(http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3196779.stm)

These men (and women) are all free and walking around. If fact, Sinn Fein, the Political front for the IRA, and now in government.

That’s what comes from "other countries terrorists are not hunted down and bombed by military, but given a trial and sent to prison".

That is just two examples of HUNDREDS of evil deeds carried out by BOTH sides of terrorists.

Israel may be tough of the people that murdering her citizens, and because of that peace is harder to achieve. But I'd rather have no peace than murders walking the streets and holding political office.

At least when a Israeli mother loses a child to terrorism, she knows that Israel is going to do all in it power to get justice, unlike most (All?) other countries. There is a limit to how much you should pay for peace.

...Another 2 cents...


[ This Message was edited by: pleber on 2003-09-04 15:02 ]
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Posted: 2003-09-04 15:47:36
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You are right they have one of the most advanced militiries in the world and now with the GSM snooping not only can their fancy jets kill the poor Palestenians easy but they can even snoop on their cellular calls.
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Posted: 2003-09-04 15:50:44
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Guys... there are no rights, only wrongs in the history of Israel. There is no such thing as an easy solution and there will not be peace for a long long time to come I'm afraid.

If an Israeli mother loses her child in a terrorist attack, a missile will fly into a palestinian town and kill 'terrorists' as well as whoever happens to be near the place of impact and a palestinian woman in turn loses her child.

This will lead to more violence, which will in trun lead to more violence.

The only way to ever end this, is when ppl everywhere start to realize that the question is not: who is wrong and how can we retaliate?, but only if all parties are willing to give what it takes to make it right.


Now back to topic: eavesdropping into mobile phone conversations: I was thinking not so much of Israel as I was thinking of the US government but let's not get into that.
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Posted: 2003-09-04 15:55:48
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yusufl

The only "poor Palestenians" Israel targets are terrorists. You know.. them people that murder innocent people... fly planes into buildings... etc?

I reconise that some innocent Palistiniens are also killed in this fighting, and Israel should do more to stop this, but the majority of these are throwing stones and getting inbetween Israeli and Hamas fighters.
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Posted: 2003-09-04 15:57:10
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@ pleber

So what you're basicly saying is that you agree with the Israeli way of handlig things... I for sure don't. But I don't agree with terrorists either. But there is always a reason behind terrorist attacks. They are not hating Israel for nothing.

You could have death penalty for severe terrorists act... like blowing up a bus with innocent people, but bombing the crap out of them without trial isn't helping anyone.. in fact it's only making it worse.

Also the majority of the palestinians doesn't deserve the way Israel is treating them.

@ Vlammetje

Well said.. that was partly what I wanted to say. And yes I was also thinking about the US

[ This Message was edited by: ppcrockar on 2003-09-04 15:08 ]

[ This Message was edited by: ppcrockar on 2003-09-04 15:10 ]
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Posted: 2003-09-04 16:02:11
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@Vlammetje

Your right, Israel do not enough care when killing terrorists. But lets look at recent events.

But your missing the point. Hamas etc. intentionally target innocents. Israel do not. Look at recent events.

Israel kills a Hamas militant they believe was going to commit a suicide attack. How do Hamas etc. respond? Do they

A, Kill a Israeli Solider in response
B, Kill a Israeli politician that makes Israel’s Military decision
c, Blow up a bus for of innocent people


@ppcrockar

You're right there are always a reasons behind terrorist attacks. But not always are those reasons reasonable. Like the killing of 21 innocent civilians in response to a hamas Militant being killed. Does that sound reasonable?

***EDIT***

"You could have death penalty for severe terrorists act... like blowing up a bus with innocent people, but bombing the crap out of them without trial isn't helping anyone.. in fact it's only making it worse."

If it is morally right to execute a terrorist for the murder of 21 people in a bus, then it is morally right to execute a terrorist for the murder of one person. Israel cannot execute suicide bombers because they are dead once they carry out the attack. They can only attack those behind the suicide bombers.

"Also the majority of the Palestinians doesn't deserve the way Israel is treating them. "

Your right... but how else can Israel protect its citizens without closing them in. Do you think Israel are treating the Palestinians they way they are for fun? Or to show them whos boss? No, its for security purposes only. Israel would rather make like difficult for a thousand people if it meant saving one life.


I do not agree with the assignation of anyone, including terrorists. They should all have trials. In saying that I can’t see a country that dealing with terrorists better than Israel.
***EDIT***


Also, back to GSM networks.. US don’t need that technology... NSA already have a direct link to all your conversations on landline and GSM directly from the phone companies.


[ This Message was edited by: pleber on 2003-09-04 15:24 ]
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Posted: 2003-09-04 16:15:01
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Dear gawd......

USA will have and abuse the technology mark my words.

I am not willing to pasrticipate in any argument over Israel. The situation is bad enough as it is. unfortunately, it is the ppl that have no room for thoughts in theri mind except this 1: 'I am right and all others are wrong.' that keep the violence alive. This does not just apply for Israel btw.
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Posted: 2003-09-04 16:18:35
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U know come to think of it.. its all the brits fault for bringing the jewish into the region. haha.
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Posted: 2003-09-04 22:47:52
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Just giving back what belonged to them.
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Posted: 2003-09-05 00:27:20
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