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A lot of people just need to learn to make valid complaints, really. The compulsive complainers complain whether it rains, snows or is sunny.
I notice that there are quite a number of people still giving attention to people with serious needs, as well as discussing real issues. Then there are a few threads that are quite informative in content. These keep me coming back.
Besides those, I am not too much into non-phone related threads. Once in a red moon, maybe.
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[ This Message was edited by: AYA on 2005-05-22 05:42 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-22 06:37:00
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Residentevil Posts: > 500
It is the complainer that drives me up the wall. I just could choke the living daylight out of them.
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Posted: 2005-05-22 06:41:00
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@evil, agreed.
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Posted: 2005-05-22 07:13:01
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@AYA
There are so many threads posted by people asking for help with a problem that don't get many replies; I wonder how many of them were because they were buried under the mountain of tosh so that people who could have helped didn't notice them?
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Posted: 2005-05-22 07:16:44
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@scotsboyuk, you manage to put into words, very fine words, the thoughts that I have had since late last year and if I am totally honest it is a large part of my reasons for wishing to give up moderating here a few months back.
As someone who reads most posts I just found myself getting more and more infuriated and frustrated by all this and thats no frame of mind to be in when trying to be impartial and fair in dealing with situations
I have tried PMing a few of the main members I consider to be participating in the described practices there is generally no defined rules being broken and though some initial note is taken it doesn't take long for them to revert to their previous ways.
The problem is that if we moderators take action against such members we get called dictatorial (I certainly have a couple of times already) and if we don't, well then we get these threads and the problems described herein.
I guess one problem with Esato's popularity is that it is easily found in google searches and so attracts members from all countries, ages, ethnic backgrounds, mental states, and any other categories you would care to mention and the quality level in posting is a constantly changing xxxxxx
We see many cycles too, from product rumours to official announcement to impatience in obtaining the new products to excitement when they are released to dissapointment when bugs are found then onto impatience again waiting for the next rumours and so the cycle goes back to the rumours
in between these steps we see lulls where suddenly Esato gets filled with garbage and non mobile related topics and these can be about all varieties of topics and you have to sometimes wonder if some members are just sitting there dreaming up stuff to post no matter what
we get 60 new members each day on average, many just passing by because they found us on google and need a question answered quickly. Many probably have not even been forum members before and though we present the forum rules on signup suggesting to familiarise themselves with the forum, use the search, etiquette etc they are in such a rush to get their question answered they just don't have time to read all that and this is a fact of life in many things we do.
Fortunately many of these members enjoy what they see and become core regular members and thus realise their early mistakes but with such a high turnover of members its always going to be an issue
in summary, I guess Esato is somewhat a victim of its own success and I don't see how such a fluid site can really be controlled or moderated in anyway other than how it is now to change these things that are not breaking established forum rules without the pendulum swinging the other way and members being upset with moderators for being too invasive
as always, we welcome any sensible and constructive suggestions to make Esato a happier and friendlier place but at the end of the day the responsibility is largely with the members themselves
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V800 K700i[ This Message was edited by: masseur on 2005-05-22 06:50 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-22 07:35:43
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Well said masseur.
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Posted: 2005-05-22 07:45:37
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@masseur
Far from calling the moderators dictatorial I think you are probably well aware of my thoughts on the matter!
I agree with your points, but I would like to add that something can be done about it. Now I shall probably sound like an old fogey now, but I remember when Esato used to be about mobile phones and mostly SE phones at that! The odd thread about non-mobile related matters was fine and taken in a good light because we weren't swamped with them.
I would very much welcome a stronger stance from the moderators. I don't say that imply criticism of current policy, just that I think a stronger line is needed.
I ask myself where my friends from Esato are and I have to answer that many of them are gone; pachy, MixiN, fijbert, bacanito, MaThIbUs, Little Jon, scouser_75, Spondas, etc. (I just realised how much I miss those people as I read through my pms, especially pachy.) Why have those people left? I have asked many people this question and there seems to be a general consensus amongst many that they felt Esato had drifted away from what it was supposed to be i.e. a Sony Ericsson mobile phone forum. Many are put off by the peurile threads on politics or religion or endless petty arguments over the silliest of things.
Gone are the days of healthy debates where people didn't take offence if you said 'hello' to them! Where are the threads of old discussing new features without the heavy sarcasm and cynicism we see today? Where are the wonderful threads helping people with their problems that didn't turn into petty flame wars because someone ommitted a small (irrelevant) point? Where are the threads appreciating SE (it is still a SE fan forum isn't it?)? Where are the threads where one wasn't attacked and/or ridiculed for defending SE (again I thought this was a fan forum!)?
I say it's high time we had a return to the way things used to be!
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Posted: 2005-05-22 08:23:28
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unfortunately, and without being specific, one or two of the names you mention are members who I would have put into some of the categories you list in your opening post so what is good for you is not neccessarily good for me or another member and therein lies the problem on Esato with so many members
attempting to make Esato something it isn't so that members who are fondly remembered will remain or return is not a realistic goal IMHO and I wonder how much different Esato would be today if the mentioned members were still here? I personally doubt there would be much that was different. People come, people go and thats the nature of a large forum such as this. One day you and I wil also not be here for whatever reasons we might have and if that reason is that Esato no longer suits our needs then that is as good a reason as any but not a reason to try to make Esato something it is not.
Of course I'd also like to see less antagonism, less agressive attitude, less posting just for the sake of it etc but these will never be eradicated. Its also worth mentioning that I receive very few complaints from members about other members suggesting that many issues are taken to PM etc to resolve between the members themselves
finally, the suggestion of moderators taking a stronger stance is fine but in what way? I have scratched my head long and hard trying to figure this one out. do we go around deleting posts that we consider not fitting for the thread for whatever reason and constantly sending PMs to such members? do we apply bans if our advice to such members is not heeded? we average 1500 posts a day and thats just in mobile related threads so this task would be quite enormous. I'd be interested to hear what specifically you might suggest in regards to taking a stronger stance?
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Posted: 2005-05-22 08:57:39
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I understand that some of those people I mentioned would quite likely fit into some of the categories I defined, but that wasn't my point. My point was that many people who have left Esato have left, not because they didn't like SE or Esato anymore, but because they felt that Esato had become something it wasn't supposed to be.
As for taking a stronge rline I have several suggestions, most of which are probably not going to be very popular, but then I don't really care. I have never been interested in popularity contests and I'm sure most people will know that I mean it when I say that I couldn't care less what people think of me. With that in mind I would suggest the following:
1.) More moderators! A forum this size needs more than the current moderator levels in my opinion. I understand that members have a part to play too, in reporting anything that breaks the rules, etc. However, this isn't really a substitute for a fully fledged moderator and I think Esato would be better served if there were more moderators. I am not going to bother justifying the fact that I am not intending this as a criticism of the current moderators because I am sick of people assuming that such things are. I would also like to point out before some smart Alec makes the charge, that I am not thinking of myself for a moderator position. I can think of a number of people who would make fine moderators and who I would nominate for the post before myself.
2.) This isn't a democracy! Lock, move, delete and archive threads that are bothersome and annoying to other members. If a thread is going offtopic warn the people involved and if they don't heed the advice lock it. Threads carry on too long like that.
3.) Delete the really silly threads that are locked, it just throws up more rubbish when one uses the search.
4.) An active campaign against serial posters who contribute bugger all to any discussion apart from gormless smilies and aggravating mono-syllabic senetences. Getting rid of the post count would probably be a good idea to help such a campaign. (Incidentally I have the 9th highest post count so I would be one of the one's 'losing out', if you can even say that with a straight face, from scrapping the post count.)
5.) In conjunction with point 1, individual forums could be given moderators who would be able to devote more time to each forum with 'super moderators' taking overall charge of moderating.
6.) Merge the 'Mobile Free Zone' and the 'General' forums, why have two forums full on non-mobile related threads when one would focus it all in one place?
7.) Allow people to create threads in the Rubbish forum, that way the real tosh might be created there more often than in other forums. This would hopefully free up the merged Mobile Free\General forum for relatively sensible non-mobile threads.
8.) Institute a trial period for politico-religious threads. I am fed up with seeing innane arguments over religion or politics; if people can discuss either subject without petty flaming then fine, if they can't then ban such discussions. It has worked well on another forum I am a member of, there is no reason it can't work here. As for people's right to freedom of speech, they can post about politics and religion on a dedicated forum; I know many people who would rather not have what is supposed to be a mobile phone forum burdened with this sort of thing. As I said, Esato isn't a democracy!
9.) An aggressive policy on merging threads that are basically dealing with the same thing, either that or faster redirects, locks and deletions of such threads.
10.) An active campaign to promote the naming of threads. I know that some of the moderators do this already, but if a member does name their thread in a way that is misleading (as we all know this happens frequently) then a moderator should just change it to something appropriate. Again this isn't a democracy.
11.) A user ranking system to be administered by the moderators. This would involve granting those members who have specialised knowledge a short title indicating their specialised field. This would then allow other members to quickly identify those people who may be best suited to help them should replies via threads not be forthcoming.
12.) The search should be modified to allow users to exclude the non-mobile forums (especially the Rubbish Forum!) from searches. I know you can find a needle in a haystack using the search feature masseur
, but many cannot. It would be useful to be able to search through all the mobile forums at once, or a combination thereof, without turning up results that include half the Rubbish forum!
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-22 08:38 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-22 09:31:08
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Scots, afaik we can already create a new thread in the garbage section....albeit on wap! I have created quite a few threads in the garbage section without a helping hand by the mods.
. Also i agree with you that there needs to be more moderators. I've seen quite a few forums where there are seperate mods for each section! It would only help current mods who are doing their best..but a forum as big as esato needs more people to keep things under control.
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Posted: 2005-05-22 11:14:00
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