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After reading thru most of the posts of this tread,I can't help to ask:should nokia and se change places (reliability wise),would you have posted the way you did ? Nokia is top and se bottom because the way they do their things .You should criticise if you want/expect a change and not look for excuses.(the managers and directors make/have plenty)Greetings from South Africa.Mario ;-)
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Posted: 2005-08-28 07:41:31
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Quote:It is too early to say for definite whether or not it is the smartphone or 3G side of the handset that is pushing the sales. If one looks to Nokia sales on a network like 3, for example, then one finds that they only sell 3G there because that is all 3 sell.
Funny thing is you just answered what will happen in the future. Someone else mentioned that people tend to buy more Nokia phones, because Nokia tends to put more phones out there; or sorry, that Nokia intends to force smartphones down everybody's neck so to speck - thats how I interpreted, sorry.
Well long ago Nokia was an Underdog and Ericsson was near the king of the wireless phone castle. Nokia decided to start changing phones with colors - because their engineers at a bar couldnt tell who's phone was who's after drinking. Since then customizing began in full (case's straps, pouches, etc). This helped them buy selling 1 phone platform in different wrappers if you will buy saving costs, and making money. When networks realized the sales frienzy they started longer more fruitful partnerships. ie. Almost, if not EVERY, network in the world carry's Nokia, Motorola, or SonyEricsson phones!
Currently with the billions of dollars spent to make 3G in Europe common place, the "average" user doesnt find any use for the exhorbant costs of using the features. The strange thing is 3G features are best aligned with smartphones.
Video calling with video voice messaging answering systems linked to your phone line. streaming of various formats of video to your phone, as more and more people are becoming mobile. Updated Soccer scores & live "player cards" that get updated with the latest stats, or a video clip of a striker putting his footy on the mark. Hearing impaired able to do a video call while relaying their email to the other person on the video line! The bounds are as endless as the imagination. K750 is a great phone - finally got to use one this weekend and I'm impressed that certain features in my T39m have returned after missing from the K700i; but even that phone acts more like a "smartphone" that ANY of Ericsson's or dumb Nokia phones before it. Like Max said, this trend will continue maybe until the "smartphone" and dumb phones become one.
For any company to get big, it must first listen to its customers and deliver what the majority of them want, improving on the last product launched. Nokia have been doing this for years. SE did it with the P800 - god what an ugly phone, but the P900/910 are pure elegance. SE is doing it again with the K750/W800 - but with the K750/800 its taken a step from the Nokia old book. Make a segmented phone with different casings, ship one with features (limited & presented only by firmware) & more external memory than the other, and price them accordingly. Lastly, make significant partnerships with big networks to help theirs & your bottom line - D750 of Tmobile anyone??
Boys Nokia did good with the 6680 from the flop of the 6630, give credit where credit is due, please!
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Posted: 2005-08-28 07:54:05
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I really don't see why it should take SE to stabalise their smartphones. UIQ wasn't unstable when it came out and I don't think UIQ3 will be either.
As for nokia taking the lead with 3g, well that's simple to answer. Most comanies in 3g just market their handsets in countries that have 3g. Nokia markets the 6630, for exapmle, everwhere. The 6630 is selling well here in Egypt where we have no 3g nor EDGE just because the 6600 became too common and people that could afford a more expensive phone wanted to be a little unique. We also got the 6680 although we could do just as well with the 6681 because of the lack of 3g. I definaitely agree most peole that buy s60 nokias don't know what a smartphone is. They buy s60s because they know someone that owns one too and they are wowed about the big screen and watching videos and all.
I think 2006/7 will be the years of UIQ3 for SE. By 2008 I wouldn't be surprised if most of their phones used it.
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Posted: 2005-08-28 12:04:43
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On 2005-08-28 05:27:20, mib1800 wrote:
It is not that early. Last year smartphone was something like 3%. This year it is about 8-10%. 3G is at 5%. both are more than doubling every year. I think it would be realistic to say saturation level is maybe at 30% and this is not that far away.
The sales we are seeing now are difficult to attribute to genuine interest in those features though. What we have is a market where Mokia is increasingly offering smartphone as part of its portfolio and where 3G handsets are increasingly being pushed on customers. What we don't have is an objective model whereby one could actually examine either and see whether customers were actually buying these products because they wanted those features rather than becaus eof the deal they are getting; that they thing the product looks good, etc.
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Posted: 2005-08-28 13:12:11
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On 2005-08-28 07:54:05, Prom1 wrote:
Funny thing is you just answered what will happen in the future. Someone else mentioned that people tend to buy more Nokia phones, because Nokia tends to put more phones out there; or sorry, that Nokia intends to force smartphones down everybody's neck so to speck - thats how I interpreted, sorry.
Not really. My point about the 3 network is that people don't really have a choice whether or not they buy a 3G Nokia smartphone because that is all 3 offers in terms of Nokia products. Equally there is no choice between 2.5G and 3G products with 3 because they only sell 3G products.
This model can be modified and applied to other networks to a certain extent. Where a network is offering a good deal on 3G handsets or a special tariff one has to question whether it is that incentive or the actual 3G capabilities of the handset that has attracted the customer.
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Currently with the billions of dollars spent to make 3G in Europe common place, the "average" user doesnt find any use for the exhorbant costs of using the features. The strange thing is 3G features are best aligned with smartphones.
I agree with your summation of the costs involved, but I disagree with the smartphone alignment; I shall detail why below.
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Video calling with video voice messaging answering systems linked to your phone line. streaming of various formats of video to your phone, as more and more people are becoming mobile. Updated Soccer scores & live "player cards" that get updated with the latest stats, or a video clip of a striker putting his footy on the mark. Hearing impaired able to do a video call while relaying their email to the other person on the video line! The bounds are as endless as the imagination. K750 is a great phone - finally got to use one this weekend and I'm impressed that certain features in my T39m have returned after missing from the K700i; but even that phone acts more like a "smartphone" that ANY of Ericsson's or dumb Nokia phones before it. Like Max said, this trend will continue maybe until the "smartphone" and dumb phones become one.
Smartphone features really aren't applicable to the majority of the population. I shan't go over old ground here (just look up one of the previous threads on this subject to read my views on this), but suffice to say that Jow Bloggs doesn't need and doesn't use most smartphone features. What would be more useful to Joe Bloggs would be a mobile, which has certain smartphone features imbedded in it. That is there is no need to install applications or a requirement to be familiar with such processes or anyhting more complex than people are already accustomed to.
Smartphones have their place, but if one looks to the numerous surveys carried out for magazines, television, newspapers, etc over the last couple of years, which look at mobile usage patterns one will find that most people aren't using their mobiles to their full potential. Most people don't seem to be all that interested in PDA features in their mobile, but rather common cultural features, which they will use e.g. video player, mp3 player, camera, calendar, internet browser, etc. Support for Excel files or the ability to remotely sync with a server are features that find mor epopularity amongst the business community than they do with the average user.
3G is certainly conductive to smartphone in so far is it offers those who would fully utilise a smartphone greater data speeds etc. 3G is also conductive to 'semi-smartphones' in that it offers the opportunity for imbedded features to reach a new level e.g. download music straight to one's handset, vide calls, etc.
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For any company to get big, it must first listen to its customers and deliver what the majority of them want, improving on the last product launched. Nokia have been doing this for years. SE did it with the P800 - god what an ugly phone, but the P900/910 are pure elegance. SE is doing it again with the K750/W800 - but with the K750/800 its taken a step from the Nokia old book. Make a segmented phone with different casings, ship one with features (limited & presented only by firmware) & more external memory than the other, and price them accordingly. Lastly, make significant partnerships with big networks to help theirs & your bottom line - D750 of Tmobile anyone??
To a certain extent I would agree with you here. Nokia obviously realises that the bulk of their market share comes from people all over the world buying their low to mid-range handsets. Nokia do produce good low-end handsets, which have found popularity inmany of the poorer markets as well as the wealthier markets amongst customers looking for basic/cheap handsets. Nokia caters very well indeed to this market segment.
SE has only really begun aiming at this market segment and I think we shall probably have to wait a year or two before we se ehow well they actually do here.
I don't necessarily think that the K750/W800 situation was a new idea that SE have only recently considered. Up until this year SE had a relatively small product line (it is still small in comparison to other manufacturers) and so this sort of thing wasn't really going to happen. Now that SE seems to be expanding its portfolio more I think we shall see them doing this more and more with a view to appealling to as broad a range of customers as possible.
It's rather curious that many people compare Nokia and SE. It would seem more sensible to draw comparisons between Nokia and Motorola or Samsung and between SE and Samsung, for example.
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Posted: 2005-08-28 13:35:18
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On 2005-08-28 06:22:24, max_wedge wrote:
Mib: "I agree with you operators are pushing these phones out cheaply in the hope that people will take up 3G services. I think the day where buyer says "ah I want use 3G services so I must buy a 3G phone" is still some way off. "
I completely agree. Infact, that is the part of the premise of my argument that SE still have time to prepare their smartphone strategy, and to increase the smartphone proportion of their line-up, and still be competitive against Nokia when they do so.
I believe you could equally say "ah I want use smartphone features, so I must buy a smartphone" is still some way off. "
(ducks....)
Sure. SE still got time to prepare but this window is getting smaller and smaller. It needs a 3G + smartphone and hopefully it is not going to be as expensive as the P series.
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Posted: 2005-08-28 16:31:00
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I believe they are preparing now - writing UIQ3, testing the 3G waters with K600 (not to bad a phone, in a reasonably compact form factor).
I can't see the replacement for P910 being anything but UIQ3 based, and I expect they will bring out a hard screen candybar UIQ3 device at the same time.
They have put all their smartphone effort to this end (UIQ3 development), and that is why the P series has seen no development. In truth, the P series is dead, and the UIQ3 smartpheonix (get it
) will rise from it's ashes.
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Posted: 2005-08-28 16:57:51
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scotsboyuk:
Quote: The sales we are seeing now are difficult to attribute to genuine interest in those features though. What we have is a market where Mokia is increasingly offering smartphone as part of its portfolio and where 3G handsets are increasingly being pushed on customers. What we don't have is an objective model whereby one could actually examine either and see whether customers were actually buying these products because they wanted those features rather than becaus eof the deal they are getting; that they thing the product looks good, etc.
I agree partly with you on this. Unfortunately, it would be very difficult (or near impossible) to ascertain whether buyers are using these 3G/smartphone features or not. Does it even matter or change anything even if we know this?
Maybe we just look at the handset itself. Why is it the 6680 sold so well that it can help propel Nokia to #1 spot for 3G. Why is it not the V800/z800 for SE? Every manufacturers have one or two 3G phones and should have same equal opportunity to succeed.
Maybe I'm revisiting old points but one thing I do know is that smartphone is growing much faster than general market. Even if you exclude Nokia, other smartphone vendors (microsoft/palm) have similar growth. The smarter bet is still with a smartphone than without one. Can the 6680 success is due to the attention grabbing 3G+edge+smartphone all-in-one?
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Posted: 2005-08-28 17:15:26
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I am now adding a twist here: Sony Ericsson should create more MID-END smartphones. Price range is about the nokia 3230 or the nokia 7610.
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Posted: 2005-09-25 08:06:30
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they should flood the market nokia style
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Posted: 2005-09-25 08:37:33
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