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You want it bluntly . Why dont you honestly say that UIQ3 UI sucks even more. You know why? Who is the brainless UIQ3 designer who thinks it is a good idea to retain 12 icons main menu and at the same time in the standby you can have 15 shortcuts. So the main menu is a total farce (i.e. completely useless since your standby shortcuts are already enough). Dont you think so? I know you will try to show how loyal a UIQ3 fan you are by defending blindly this totally illogical design.




[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-14 16:12 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-14 17:12:07
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@mib1800
I really thought you're smart and intelligent person, one who made discussion interesting and learning experience. Take dogmann as example. I found his latest posts and replies quite refreshing and interesting although he is the one who doesn't like UIQ. It should go in that way.
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Posted: 2007-12-14 19:50:29
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you are absolutely right.. the 15 icon shortcut is a helluva lot more useful then the main menu... lol

but at the same time they are both needed...unless you can think of a creative way to eliminate one of them..

i personally think the p5i specs are enough if it hits q1 of 08.. i rather see a launched device that is up to par then a device in q3 that is ahead...

_________________
Shaolinmonk on HOFO Official PHONE JUNKIE
My P1i Review
http://www.esato.com/board/viewtopic.php?topic=152437&start=0

[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2007-12-14 19:24 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-14 20:22:47
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Like this ever had anything to do with specs. What is is about is how phone- companies might be able to subsidise phone- manufacturers so they'll make phones charging you per button- click (which, of course, is a lucrative business on s60 - as we know...)

^I'm not actually serious, you know. Exaggerating a lot. Not to be read literally. (Yes, I'm talking to you, mib.)


In other news:


Ka- ching!
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Posted: 2007-12-14 21:22:45
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Hi Nipsen,

Whilst some of it is obviously about generating revenue as in the Music Store and Ngage games, some of the things S60 gives you are totally free as in the Nokia Podcasting app that was originally a free app you could download direct from Nokia but now is included on devices.

Which unlike UIQ is not down to the hard work and kindness of people having to develop one for it, I've had a free Podcasting apps now for so long now i was shocked to see that people had to create one to give you this functionality and only recently at that as i believe it is still in Beta.

@Koto

I wouldn't say i don't like UIQ although i would say i was not happy with early UIQ3 and don't like the lack of spec's in UIQ3 devices which means even if i now was to accept UIQ3 there are no devices for me currently. Hopefully the P5 will address for me what i feel are the missing spec's processor wise and with HSDPA. Which is why i have said even though it may mean a wait i for one are happy that SE decided to up the spec's for the P5 and not yet again use a processor that is old and near the end of it's life cycle. I really want to see an SE/UIQ device that has all the latest spec's with nothing missing just like i was used to and then i can forget the early and current UIQ3 devices and possibly return.

Marc

_________________
Nokia N95 8GB, SU-8W, Fring, Vox, Tom Tom 6, Shure EC2g
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-12-14 21:58 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-14 22:51:32
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Doggman, like koto said, i am really digging your latest posts...i agreed the most you said...in fact, in my 10 questions to uiq suggestions i refer precisely how good s60 is doing some things. That other guy really coul lear a bit with your attitude

UIQ can be so much better...but i reckon they are on a key change time...they just doubled their human resources, opened new offices, changed shareolder structure...lets see what happens


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Posted: 2007-12-14 23:13:56
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Hi Ares,

I have always maintained i neither hated SE or UIQ as having used them for so long and having worked on pre release devices with Ericsson and then SE with UIQ to try and push the uptake of Data products in general i was just really saddened as the course of events unfolded.

Maybe i was just so disappointed and in disbelief at what SE did with the release of UIQ3 that i found it just inexcusable and the longer it went on especially the silence and the amount of time it took for new firmware that fixed things the worse it became. The stopping of any further firmware and support on devices so early in their life cycle was also just so wrong IMO.

I admit i jumped ship but then i expect my devices to perform as i expect not perfect as that is unrealistic but at least to an acceptable level. My biggest concern at the time was a lack of touchscreen and would i be able to cope with out it and to my surprise i found i could.

Now again i am not infatuated with Nokia and S60 i have never said nor do i believe it is perfect either but the initial problems with their devices were all resolved quickly and within a maximum of two firmwares were stable and fast enough for my needs. What i have appreciated about S60 and Nokia is not just the Firmware support but all the additional apps and functionality they give you and that is an ongoing process this is something SE could learn well from as opposed to abandoning there users and remaining silent.

I really am hoping that the P5 takes SE back to where it should be as you know i disagreed with you that the proposed P5 spec's were good enough and am pleased they decide to upgrade them. Now that UIQ3 has had time to mature i really hope we can go back to seeing the products and performance we expect from them. If they get it right i am pretty sure not just myself but others also will return despite what some have said as there is something about SE that just gets in your blood. Failure really isn't an option as if they fail to deliver next time i really think that will be it and those that look elsewhere will be very unlikely to return ever.

The only slight concern have left is that they don't make the P5 to heavily Multimedia focused at the expense of Buisness functions as although Multimedia is IMO becoming a much larger target of users that would be diluting the P series to far and a P series IMO should primarily be a Buisness device. This is strategy i do think Nokia have developed well with the differentials between E & N Series devices and SE can achieve this also with the P and W series of smart phones. Well at least with HSDPA, WiFi g and faster processors i will at least be able to include SE and UIQ3 in my options as without those i am just not interested. I do doubt i will be an early adopter but if the P5 delivers then i won't be far behind depending of course on what else is in the market at the time.

But can you imagine if the P1 had been the M600 just how great the reviews and accolades would of been for SE and UIQ it's market share would of surely grown and to be honest that is the quality and performance i expected from the M600 and wasn't what i got.

Marc



_________________
Nokia N95 8GB, SU-8W, Fring, Vox, Tom Tom 6, Shure EC2g
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-12-15 00:39 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-15 01:35:18
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Is there anything unintelligent saying the UIQ3 UI is illogical with 15 shortcuts icons and still retaining the 12 (or 9?) main menu icons. Are you saying it is a good idea? Or are you gonna just follows the universal SE fanboy statement that "S60 UI sucks" without giving any reasons to it except...duh "it just sucks"




[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-15 03:20 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-15 04:18:15
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@nipsen



So you dont mind for fun sake if I also exagerrate a bit.

" From a design point of view UIQ3 is really sucks. Look at the UIQ3 main menu and it is like siberia -totally sparse and waste of space. It dont have the elegant of S60 neatly labelled 12 icons. And what with the UIQ3 "More" option. It reminds me of prog UI my dad's used (Wordstar or something) ages ago. A menu with flyout submenu is light years better...hahaha...maybe UIQ3 designers should undertake to study with the greatest..wink wink.. you know who.. ".


But seriously, both UIQ3 and S60v3 are designed for different audience. S60v3 design emphasis is to resemble as closely as possible to a one-handed "normal phone" (i.e. non-smart phone) where the majority would find it easy to use. UIQ3 design originate from PDA design which is for a niche group of users. If you give UIQ3 UI to a person who has totally no experience with PDA use then it is likely this person would tear his/her hair out trying to use it.

The core of both implements the Symbian OS so both would be similarly capable. Like I say, UI wise is really not comparable. UIQ3 design is niche and S60 design is mainstream. There is no way a TS UIQ3 can be accepted by majority of phone users who are used to UI they have been using all along. And S60 give a semblance to this. UIQ3 gives virtually none (..."where the heck is the joysitick/joypad???")

And then we compare functionality and in this aspects we know Nokia bundled more capabilities (due to bigger development capability and better hardware). Lastly is hardware. THis is what sells phone. For typical phone buyers, a 5MP + dvd-like video rec would sell more than a 3MP + TS. So a UIQ3 device like P1 would be very lucky if it can sell one-twentieth the volume of of N95 for example.

Even IF (imo that's is a huge IF) UIQ3 has a "technical" concept underneath the hood but has little "practical" concept. Just like the VHS + Betamax debate. And we know one of the major reasons why Betamax failed is due to its requirement of 4 video heads instead of 2 in VHS.








[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-12-15 06:08 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-15 05:11:34
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@mib
I will simply quote myself as a reply.
I can see that you don't understand what I wanted to say in my previous post and it had nothing to do with 15 shortcuts and similar. Your reply just prove that the actual funboy hiding in calling others by that name and putting mocking smilies is you.
Regarding main menu I don't see anything wrong there.One of my 15 shortcuts is the main menu itself as I still need to access other 30 or more apps I have installed.

[ This Message was edited by: koto on 2007-12-15 08:41 ]
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Posted: 2007-12-15 09:33:11
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