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It's probably hypothetical but I'm just curious of what will happen to those people who never got the chance to know about God or the Bible.
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Posted: 2004-11-18 12:34:13
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but nearly all people all over the world in all times have believed in something "higher". That at least should make it
Well, thatīs the problem if you start analyzing, even beyond wonders.
I prefer the following: Christians (me too) do not believe (like Calvinists I presume) in pre-determination of life. But - if thereīs an omniscient god he HAS to know what was, is & will be. Consequence is - he knows what will happen to me - so my life is determined, isnīt it? Why should I then rack if my way is already laid out?
Had hours of very good discussions about this.. even with priests & atheists..
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Posted: 2004-11-18 12:41:26
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No one's life is predetermined imo, we make it what it is! I am the master of my own destiny (and I've made plenty of mistakes!!), as is everyone else in the world.
Again, humanity needs to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming or using deities (think I've spelt that right!) for excuses for why they've done or are doing something (e.g. Islamic suicide bombers, George Bush). I'd like to see people doing the right thing but of their own accord, not because 'God told me to'.
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Posted: 2004-11-18 13:22:53
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Sorry mate, weīre riding different horses
I donīt believe in predetermination either - but if youīd like to read my post again, and if you were a christian too (or at least believing a nonpredeterminational blief) - wouldnīt that be a question to argue upon?
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Posted: 2004-11-18 13:32:44
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Sorry mate - misread your post slightly!
btw what do you mean by a 'nonpredeterminational belief'?
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Posted: 2004-11-18 14:33:40
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Hi fetzi. I hope I've understood your post correctly. Please excuse me if I've misunderstood.
Wether God chooses to know or not, I think the issue here is that WE do actually determine OUR outcome. While I know I have a choice, I then have to decide to make the right choice.
** Added **
BTW fetzi, could you explain what you mean by the following:
according to "the book" you donīt have to believe in itself - but at least at the end of your life you have to believe in god..
Thanks
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Neekos
[ This Message was edited by: Neekos on 2004-11-18 13:40 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-18 14:38:09
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@sammy boy: I mean not to believe that my live is predetermined - did I exaggerate word-funding a bit too much?
@neekos
Think youīve understood; but I wonīt discuss it the way how I live - itīs more the interesting conflict in anylising. God is almighty - thatīs christian belief. If god is almighty, he must (or at least could) know everything. That encloses past and future. So he knows my future. If my future is known, it is some kind of predetermined. Thatīs only logical, isnīt it?
getting on the edge
(nevertheless - understanding god would mean beeing god)
**added **
@neekos: I do not know any saying in the bible that you have to believe in the bible itself - itīs just that you have to believe in god. And even 'sinners' will be forgiven if they start believing at the end of their lives..
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Pop! Goes The Hamster... And Other Great Microwave Games
[ This Message was edited by: fetzi on 2004-11-18 13:47 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-18 14:45:39
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@fetzi
I see where you are coming from. I wans't trying to personalise my answer to the way you live or anything. You do make an noteworthy comment that if we understood everthing then we would be God!! I feel that the issue with determination that you mention lies in the fact that we don't know what our outcome is. Even if God knows our end, we still detemrine it, and its because of the awesomeness of God (IMO) that He is able to know the end of something that is determined by my actions and my free will. As I'm only human I'll have to leave the understanding of that to God!
Nice talking (posting!) with you all.
What do you think @Sammy_boy?
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Posted: 2004-11-18 14:55:10
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sorry, wrong expression; by 'I' - I didnīt mean myself especially but I wanted to clearify the two ways of our discussion - the 'personal predetermination (or not)' on the one and the omnipotence on the other hand
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Posted: 2004-11-18 15:01:31
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Thanks for the clarification @fetzi
(never done the smiley thing before!)
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Posted: 2004-11-18 15:51:08
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