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On 2012-03-05 12:12:21, nikos_se wrote:
Judging by past sales and profit from Sony/Sony Ericsson that strategy doesnt seem to pay off!!!!!
+10000000000
If the strategy worked
in 2011 should have made significant money.
[ This Message was edited by: randomuser on 2012-03-05 11:17 ]
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Posted: 2012-03-05 12:16:57
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On 2012-03-05 10:50:15, Ricky D wrote:
Actually I think it's more like Sony don't see the newer chips as gimmicky but rather as unnecessary. They obviously would rather spend the money on their developers optimizing for older chipsets that to pay for newer chipsets and if they can get the same performance on some level it makes sense.
Think of it like this, if an older chipset costs £1 to buy and a newer one is £5 then if I need to make a handset with the new chip the hardware price isn't going to be £4 higher than the with the old chipset. But if I can buy the £1 chipset and pay a developer team £20 to make it run as well as the new one then I'm saving that hardware money on each handset I sell. I'll sell 5 handsets and paid off my developer then I make £4 extra on every handset. The average consumer doesn't know any better, the phone runs smooth. I make more profit per handset after the break even.
The business side of it is quite straight forward. Just add a couple of zeros to each of those numbers. The thing they lose out on is having the latest hardware and, therefore, not capturing the geek porn addict's imagination. But Son have always said they're about the experience and won't take on the latest hardware until it's proven itself, to which end Tegra3 quads have proven that they're not as hot as proposed dual core A15 chips.
I guess my point is that it's not that Sony can't get out better chipsets, they're making the concious business decision not to and I'm tempted to agree with them that if the performance can be squeezed out of cheaper chipsets why not use them. Apple don't use the best chipsets but their performances aren't terrible and lord knows Sony could do with making some money.
How come rival manufacturers can still manage to use the latest chipsets and still turn a healthy profit? And if SE is implementing this for cost, it doesn't seem to be paying off.
I am happy with my arc, but I still think that if they had used a dualcore processor in the device it could have been heavy competition to the galaxy S2 and would have sold many more phones. Clearly what made the S2 popular was its latest specs including an up-to-date processor. It doesn't matter if Gingerbread couldn't make the most of it, the point is that the consumer is sold because it sounds impressive and is to some degree future proof. Similar to the megapixel race, consumers were made to believe that more was better even if often that wasn't actually the case.
On the other hand I would see the point that SE are only now interested in dualcore devices because ICS is out and so makes full use of the processor; when the arc came out Gingerbread was very much the latest version and needed nothing more than a singlecore processor. And this makes sense apart from the fact that technology moves extremely fast, and a lot of people take phones out on a 24 month contact. This year S2 owners will benefit fully from their dualcore processor, arc users on the other hand not so much, and so from a point of future proofing a device I definitely see the argument.
The average consumer might not know
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Posted: 2012-03-05 12:42:11
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On 2012-03-05 12:42:11, adsada wrote:
On 2012-03-05 10:50:15, Ricky D wrote:
Actually I think it's more like Sony don't see the newer chips as gimmicky but rather as unnecessary. They obviously would rather spend the money on their developers optimizing for older chipsets that to pay for newer chipsets and if they can get the same performance on some level it makes sense.
Think of it like this, if an older chipset costs £1 to buy and a newer one is £5 then if I need to make a handset with the new chip the hardware price isn't going to be £4 higher than the with the old chipset. But if I can buy the £1 chipset and pay a developer team £20 to make it run as well as the new one then I'm saving that hardware money on each handset I sell. I'll sell 5 handsets and paid off my developer then I make £4 extra on every handset. The average consumer doesn't know any better, the phone runs smooth. I make more profit per handset after the break even.
The business side of it is quite straight forward. Just add a couple of zeros to each of those numbers. The thing they lose out on is having the latest hardware and, therefore, not capturing the geek porn addict's imagination. But Son have always said they're about the experience and won't take on the latest hardware until it's proven itself, to which end Tegra3 quads have proven that they're not as hot as proposed dual core A15 chips.
I guess my point is that it's not that Sony can't get out better chipsets, they're making the concious business decision not to and I'm tempted to agree with them that if the performance can be squeezed out of cheaper chipsets why not use them. Apple don't use the best chipsets but their performances aren't terrible and lord knows Sony could do with making some money.
How come rival manufacturers can still manage to use the latest chipsets and still turn a healthy profit? And if SE is implementing this for cost, it doesn't seem to be paying off.
I am happy with my arc, but I still think that if they had used a dualcore processor in the device it could have been heavy competition to the galaxy S2 and would have sold many more phones. Clearly what made the S2 popular was its latest specs including an up-to-date processor. It doesn't matter if Gingerbread couldn't make the most of it, the point is that the consumer is sold because it sounds impressive and is to some degree future proof. Similar to the megapixel race, consumers were made to believe that more was better even if often that wasn't actually the case.
On the other hand I would see the point that SE are only now interested in dualcore devices because ICS is out and so makes full use of the processor; when the arc came out Gingerbread was very much the latest version and needed nothing more than a singlecore processor. And this makes sense apart from the fact that technology moves extremely fast, and a lot of people take phones out on a 24 month contact. This year S2 owners will benefit fully from their dualcore processor, arc users on the other hand not so much, and so from a point of future proofing a device I definitely see the argument.
The average consumer might not know
What about Marketing?
Samsung paid people if they sell Samsung phone to customers.
If i go to the phone store, they talk me in to it that SG2 has the best CPU or overhyped Amoled screen name it they get a bonus from Samsung.
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Posted: 2012-03-05 12:46:37
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The problem with S(E) is their fixed release dates. The smart thing would have been to release Xperia S earlier in November
or later in April-May with s4 processor instead. Now (as usual) they release a phone just before a newer processor is available gaining nothing. Most geeks will wait until HTC and samsung release their flagships.
Xperia S has the best hardware available for a release in Mars though, woho
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Posted: 2012-03-05 13:02:35
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I think last year SE were very unlucky with the natural disasters hindering supply lines and they failed to pitch Play correctly, if those things didn't go wrong they would have had a much more successful year. Not trying to make excuses for them, but this isn't far from fact.
I never said I fully agreed with Sony's current approach to the game I'm just trying to reason it. There are definite downfalls like the shorter shelf life of the handsets with lesser chipsets, but even then, I have an Arc and I've absolutely no issues with it's performance after a year. I'm perfectly happy to wait for my full upgrade from Voda in Oct and I'm someone who usually changes their handset on average in less than a year.
The wants and needs that some of the people around here and other places feel are created by the manufacturers hype. SE haven't done anything wrong by me in terms of the experience and performance I have had, still have and will have (with android 4.0) from my Arc.
Bottom line: specs are for those who can't make up their own mind with the experience and usefulness of a device so have to convince themselves they've made the right purchase by buying the thing with the latest release and longest fastest sounding name, more isn't always better
[ This Message was edited by: Ricky D on 2012-03-05 12:09 ]
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Posted: 2012-03-05 13:05:17
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On 2012-03-05 12:42:11, adsada wrote:
How come rival manufacturers can still manage to use the latest chipsets and still turn a healthy profit? And if SE is implementing this for cost, it doesn't seem to be paying off.
I am happy with my arc, but I still think that if they had used a dualcore processor in the device it could have been heavy competition to the galaxy S2 and would have sold many more phones. Clearly what made the S2 popular was its latest specs including an up-to-date processor. It doesn't matter if Gingerbread couldn't make the most of it, the point is that the consumer is sold because it sounds impressive and is to some degree future proof. Similar to the megapixel race, consumers were made to believe that more was better even if often that wasn't actually the case.
On the other hand I would see the point that SE are only now interested in dualcore devices because ICS is out and so makes full use of the processor; when the arc came out Gingerbread was very much the latest version and needed nothing more than a singlecore processor. And this makes sense apart from the fact that technology moves extremely fast, and a lot of people take phones out on a 24 month contact. This year S2 owners will benefit fully from their dualcore processor, arc users on the other hand not so much, and so from a point of future proofing a device I definitely see the argument.
I think the main factor is general efficiency. The entire 2011 line used the same 8255 S2 chip (except for the arc S, which is just a faster clocked 8255). Their Android release was completely optimized to run well on that single-core chip. This mean their high-end phones lagged in performance versus their peers only by a slim margin while their low-end phones basically blew their S1-based competition out of the water. What this also meant was software updates for the entire line could be easily rolled out due to minimal variations in hardware configurations. The biggest proof for this Sony's the only OEM that's committed to upgrading low-end phones from last year to ICS; everyone else is only promising "timely" ICS for their high-end flagship phones.
A similar strategy is most likely being applied here. Now, I don't know how extensive the differences between an S3 and a NovaThor U8500 are, but they're going to be more similar with each other than an S4 would be to the U8500; using S3 and U8500 SoCs isn't as streamlined as last year's S2-only platform, but it's still more efficient than what HTC and Samsung are doing.
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Posted: 2012-03-05 19:20:41
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If I remember previous posts in this thread, the Hayabusa is expected to come with the Qualcomm S4. While that would be great, there is one thing I'm even more keen to learn about:
Will it be equipped with a proper xenon flash? Any hints from you guys with some inside info?
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Posted: 2012-03-06 00:47:35
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@stais I don't think there is any sign that Sony are about to put the xenon back in their handsets. It seems they're happy to promote their Exmor sensors as having enough low light quality to render the xenon flash unnecessary.
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Posted: 2012-03-06 03:36:03
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quad cores may not be necessary but.. xenon may be necessary.. as it'll stand sony unique among the android crowd..
still waiting to see xenon.... its quite long time...
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Posted: 2012-03-06 04:49:17
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Snapdragon S4 and OMAP 5 possibly new Exynos from Samsung as well are not, I think you know what's gimmicky then LOL!
It will follow same route as well as it predecessor.
BTW, thanks for worthy argument above, help me alot.
On 2012-03-04 23:55:03, djin wrote:
Dual core was called gimmicky too when
couldnt get out dual cores, and yet
Managed to take the same old Dual core phone out a year later, and is no longer gimmicky. If it were with S4 dual-core, then I would see the logic with what they were doing..
At a time, when ICS doesn't come yet, I think it right to called as gimmicky.
[ This Message was edited by: HxH on 2012-03-06 14:49 ]
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Posted: 2012-03-06 15:46:12
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