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Hi Carkitter!

Maybe you'd care to state what it is from my post you consider "my opinion"?


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Posted: 2008-08-17 17:57:31
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SE is not struggling. On current information they are breaking even not losing money. They have paid their stakeholders a big dividend recently and invested heavily in R&D both of which affected net profit this year.
Motorola are struggling. SE are simply "faced with increased challenges" ATM. If Q3 and Q4 results don't improve than they will begin to struggle. Q3 results will probably include UIQ/Symbian foundation write-offs too so don't get overexcited about that.

SE products are as competitive as ever. A200 UI has been widely commended for its usability, style, media player/walkman player. The products are impressively thin and full featured despite some notable exceptions of A/F and Wifi in certain models. The market is booming in the low end where SE is underrepresented and Nokia are over represented.
SE has lowered mid range pricing to shift stock; this will affect profits but with the highest ASP in the 'Big 5' SE can afford to do it.

SE are makers of Java phone who also do a niche Symbian range. These Symbian models always hang around longer than the Java phones, what else is new? For a massive Smart phone range see market leaders Nokia.
P1 improvements are more than just RAM, what about the 3.2MP cam and Qwerty keyboard with 2 letters per key. I'm sure Mizzle can provide more info than I can on this subject. W960 is SE's only phone with TS or wifi and first with 8GB HD. Without it SE would have no entrant in the multimedia smartphone category at all.

I'm not blinded by loyalty. The non-SE phones I bought last year only served to confirm SE's superiority. My V640i further confirms it. Some SE models I wouldn't touch with a 10" barge pole, others I lust after with a passion. Isn't that normal?
Anyway, 'blinded by loyalty' is just a throwaway line used by people with weak arguments to fool naive, ill-informed members into taking sides. Are you 'blinded by hate'? Isn't Loyalty a better trait to possess than Hatred?

_________________
Voted Best Phone Review Esato Awards 2008!

[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-08-17 17:58 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-17 18:43:20
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For the record, I'm hoping SE turns the corner. I've been with them since the beginning of the joint venture only to buy from another manufacturer this year. So, I'm not criticising them out of hate but because they stopped being as innovative as they once were. For many of us they have fallen back. As for the statement about blind loyalty, that was directed at plank for calling people losers.

Maybe our understanding of "struggling" differs but for me the fact that they are 97% down on the profits compared to last year suggests they aren't doing well. They've advanced reasons for that which, as far as I'm concerned, are a load of crap. Why are they the ONLY manufacturer (exclude Motorola as they have their own sorts of problems) affected?

I will agree with you that the A200 is not too bad bar the early bugs. The lack of Wifi, GPS and HSDPA among others when other manufacturers have had them for a while tells you of their lack of competitiveness. Also the fact that they were the leaders in music and camera phone but now are trailing behind says they aren't where they used to be.

As a matter of fact, they had the best smartphone(s) around but also lost that crown. Even if they gave us one smartphone in one and a half years it was worth the wait.

They got us used to the highest quality offerings that it is difficult for a lot of us to accept what they have become. I like the X1 and am still considering it but they need to up the game.

If you read my earlier post I mentioned that Dick looks to be the kind of man who knows where he wants to go and how to get there. So, all's not lost. Having said that though, I'm not going accept inferior products from a once leading manufacturer when I know they can do better.
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Posted: 2008-08-17 19:22:25
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@Carkitter and all

They are investing heavily in R&D so they sacked most of their staff in UIQ and another 2000 SE employees. That doesn't sound or look like investing heavily in anything more like heavy duty cost cutting to me.

2007 already saw their market share falling back and this year has been a disaster for them the last Quarter especially so. Quite simply there just aren't enough of you SE fans boys that blindly believe in SE to make it a major player or successful as proved by their dropping market share and profit.

If all you SE fans where right and those of us that criticise SE where wrong that just wouldn't be happening would it? But the market has shown exactly what they think of SE and it's products falling sales and falling profits say it all.

You also think we all hate SE which is just not true but the way to make SE improve is to tell them how we feel not tell them how great they are especially when this isn't true. Unfortunately trying to engage them is pointless as they just don't take on board anything that is said and like their fans live in their own little fantasy world where somehow they still believe they are great and making high spec handsets neither of which is true.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have Won Best Debater for the 2nd Year

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-08-17 18:42 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-17 19:40:44
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@EMS06

Your statements are just a repeat of everything Dogmann has said recently and I've already busted those myths elsewhere.

@Dogmann

I don't deny SE have issues at the moment, that's plain to see. But your interpretations are way off; your sense of betrayal directed at SE has blinded YOU to the directions they are currently taking and quite frankly we SE fans are sick of your childish tamtrums dressed up as experience. We are here to enjoy ourselves and our SE phones, not to be abused by you. This is our forum and increasingly it seems, not yours! Why do you persist here? Will no other forum have you?
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Posted: 2008-08-18 00:19:19
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@Carkitter

Oh please you a really are getting pathetic in your endless claims of mass persecution of SE. I'm pretty sure not only have i bought more Ericsson and SE's devices than most have but i actually did more to sell market and support Ericsson and then SE in the market place to.

So just because you believe i hate SE doesn't make it true as i have pointed out only since 2006 and my M600 have i been forced to look elsewhere for my devices and if you think that makes me an SE hater or traitor it just proves what an idiot you are. As only an idiot blindly buys one make of device to his own detriment to what he can get for the same money elsewhere. Seeing as i buy smart phones and live in a country where HSDPA is available every where i go why should i pay the same for a non HSDPA able device with buggy firmware and a slow processor how can that make sense? or be a sensible purchase as simply it isn't.

Just a quick reminder this is not your Forum and your not even a Mod so just who do you think you are to tell anyone to stop posting or leave the forum just because you don't like and agree with their opinions? Simple answer is you are a nobody but an SE fan boy if all these other posts upset you so much what don't you take your own advice and leave. So you can either start your own Forum or find one where only good things are said about SE and good luck on finding one of those.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Honoured to have Won Best Debater for the 2nd Year

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-08-17 23:33 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-18 00:32:28
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Erm, Marc - its 'a SE fan boy' - vowels are as such, a, e, i, o, u - these are the only letters where we use 'an' - for example, 'an Walkman' is incorrect - 'an Ericsson' however, is spot on.

Just thought i'd put that in there, for good measure

Keep up the good 'Debating' Dogmann - you're doing ever so well!
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Posted: 2008-08-18 00:42:55
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@Dogmann

Your circular arguments based on superficial analysis of facts and personal attacks on the motivations of anyone who doesn't agree with you have all been done before by Another, its not unique and certainly not insightful; just irritating really and we don't need it.
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Posted: 2008-08-18 01:00:47
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if thats the case why has he won best debater two years running ....
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Posted: 2008-08-18 01:06:23
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ok so i'm not interested enough to get into debates about 'profits' 'new models' etc.. but here is an observation..
I owned SE phones for 5 years.. (5 handsets) and the latest a W760 was replaced twice till i eventually lost it, and told my provider where to stick it.. (think lack of sun!).. The phone was buggy/faulty whatever you want to call it.. The music playback stuttered.
Now i buy a WALKMAN phone mostly for music, so this fault is unacceptable! Before i hear shouts of firmware upgrades etc.. the SEUS did NOT have any, and frankly, i don't want to be bother with such things, just give me a handset from the get go which works! Second,, the camera was rubbish.. No auto focus! and no longer worked with my SE flash..
So.. My W800i (bought on day of release) actually outperformed my 'new' phone, by having better music playback and camera.. and its a 3 year old phone..
So i buy a Blokia... i had no choice, they simply offered a better product.. This is why SE is DOOMED, and until they wake up and realise they are losing valued customers, because they release 'beta' products, and think, because i buy a walkman phone i no longer want a usable camera, they will continue to slip..

Oz-Sco
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Posted: 2008-08-18 02:36:14
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