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@scottsboy: As you noted, I live in Belgium, not in some Fox News American bubble. I definitely do get the view from over here every single day. People can get that information and assimilate differently, or arrive at different conclusions from the same or similar data points; thus it has ever been in politics.
What amazes me about the Bush-bashing is the arrogance of the bashers; they assume that everyone who supports Bush is arrogant, stupid or a bully. Well, 51% of Americans who voted yesterday voted for Bush. That's either because:
a.) America is like the Soviet Union (per axxxr), deluded by its leaders into thinking its free when its not and tricked into voting for a dumbell; or,
b.) Maybe, just maybe, people abroad get a skewed view of Bush's intelligence, character and what he's trying to do.
I hope this result leads some people in and outside the U.S. to re-evaluate their opinion of the president, but I know I'm probably hoping for too much. The venom directed at him by so many on this BB and around the world seems too unthinking, too automatic and overheated, for me to believe that a re-evaluation is likely. Which is too bad, because it means the U.S.-Europe gap is likely to grow wider still, and there's nothing Bush can do about it. Too many people in Europe have simply decided he's "dumb," and that's that. Of course, if he's dumb, his supporters are all dumb too, so America is dumb, QED, right?
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:01:32
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On 2004-11-03 17:01:32, Grimslade wrote:
America is like the Soviet Union (per axxxr), deluded by its leaders into thinking its free when its not and tricked into voting for a dumbell.
That's the one.
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On 2004-11-03 17:01:32, Grimslade wrote:
Too many people in Europe have simply decided he's "dumb," and that's that. Of course, if he's dumb, his supporters are all dumb too, so America is dumb, QED, right?
This is also true. (Just kidding, to a certain extent. I think his supporters are war-mongering murderers who have little compassion or thought for anyone else aside from America, except the thought they have for America is ignorant and prejudice.)
And yes, I truely believe this.
_________________
"I did not vote for a murderer."
www.p900club.us
suite240.textamerica.com[ This Message was edited by: richy240 on 2004-11-03 16:13 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:08:26
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@richy: Boy, that's an intelligent thing to say. Thanks!
Not.
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Oh, by the way:
^BC-MA--APNewsAlert
WASHINGTON (AP) _ Sen. John Kerry calls President Bush to
concede White House race, the Associated Press has learned.
Like him or hate him, you, and the world are stuck with him. Get used to it.
[ This Message was edited by: Grimslade on 2004-11-03 16:15 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:13:44
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On 2004-11-03 17:13:44, Grimslade wrote:
@richy: Boy, that's an intelligent thing to say. Thanks!
Not.
Grimslade, if you had the intellegence to see past your own nose you might see how America's behavior effects the rest of the world. Attacking Iraq is just one example of this Administration's bad judgement, and American citizen's ignorance of world events and how America plays into those events.
Americans are hated all over the world for their arrogance AND ignorance, and for good reason. I am suprised you've lasted in Belgium this long (however long it has been) without seeing that. Get over yourself and realize that America ISN'T the only country in the world and that we (well, they) should stop acting like it is. We don't have the right to police the world, as much as we'd (they'd) like to think that is true. Just because we CAN do it doesn't mean we SHOULD do it.
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:17:59
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@Grimslade
I don't think Bush is unintelligent, he couldn't have gotten where he is today by being as stupid as people make out. The reasons I do not support Bush are very simple;
He acts without taking the opinions of the rest of the world into consideration
He seems to care very little for the environment
He (along with our own glorious leader) initiated a war against Iraq, which has now cost many thousands of lives and his continuing Presidency will almost certainly mean additional foreign troops will not be sent to Iraq resulting in more American and British casualties as the chance for a unified international settlement will be greatly reduced
He seems to allow his religious views to effect his political decisions; I was under the impressiont hat Church and State were seperate in the U.S. (I have nothing against Christianity, I would hold the exact same view if Bush were Jewish, Muslim, Hundu or anything else)
I think that the charge of foreigners assuming Americans are stupid is a poor defence used by people to justify their indignation. I do not consider Americans stupid per se, I'm sure there are many that are, just as many Britons are stupid. I do, however, think that those Americans who voted for Bush have done so for the wrong reasons.
The one view of America that does seem to hold up under scrutiny is that many Americans are very insular, to the point where many have little or no understanding orappreciation of the world outside. As powerful as America may be it does not exist in a vacuum and the rest of the world's opinion does matter. Bush's policies are increasingly pushing the rest of the world away from America, with the end result that new power blocs will be formed, which may very rob America of the power that Bush so desperately seeks to protect.
Europe, for example, already has a larger combined economy than the U.S. and has the economic and technological capability to act as a rival to the U.S. in the immediate future. China has this same capability, but over a longer time period. What will happen to Iran or North Korea? Will Bush attack either of these nations? I don't see that he would get much support for either venture, even from Britain, unless that is he does so before our next election.
The end result is that you may very well consider Bush a good president, as millions of Americans obviously do, but there are also millions of Americans, not to mention billions of non-Americans who must be looking at this election and thinking that the world has turned upside down. I genuinely hope that Bush does do a good job, I think we all do; unfortunately I have the feeling that his idea of a good job is probably not the same as most of rest of the planet.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2004-11-03 16:20 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:18:07
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Hallelujah . . . Amen to that !
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:19:58
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On 2004-11-03 17:18:07, scotsboyuk wrote:
@Grimslade
I don't think Bush is unintelligent, he couldn't have gotten where he is today by being as stupid as people make out. The reasons I do not support Bush are very simple;
He acts without taking the opinions of the rest of the world into consideration
He seems to care very little for the environment
He (along with our own glorious leader) initiated a war against Iraq, which has now cost many thousands of lives and his continuing Presidency will almost certainly mean additional foreign troops will not be sent to Iraq resulting in more American and British casualties as the chance for a unified international settlement will be greatly reduced
He seems to allow his religious views to effect his political decisions; I was under the impressiont hat Church and State were seperate in the U.S. (I have nothing against Christianity, I would hold the exact same view if Bush were Jewish, Muslim, Hundu or anything else)
I think that the charge of foreigners assuming Americans are stupid is a poor defence used by people to justify their indignation. I do not consider Americans stupid per se, I'm sure there are many that are, just as many Britons are stupid. I do, however, think that those Americans who voted for Bush have done so for the wrong reasons.
The one view of America that does seem to hold up under scrutiny is that many Americans are very insular, to the point where many have little or no understanding orappreciation of the world outside. As powerful as America may be it does not exist in a vacuum and the rest of the world's opinion does matter. Bush's policies are increasingly pushing the rest of the world away from America, with the end result that new power blocs will be formed, which may very rob America of the power that Bush so desperately seeks to protect.
Europe, for example, already has a larger combined economy than the U.S. and has the economic and technological capability to act as a rival to the U.S. in the immediate future. China has this same capability, but over a longer time period. What will happen to Iran or North Korea? Will Bush attack either of these nations? I don't see that he would get much support for either venture, even from Britain, unless that is he does so before our next election.
The end result is that you may very well consider Bush a good president, as millions of Americans obviously do, but there are also millions of Americans, not to mention billions of non-Americans who must be looking at this election and thinking that the world has turned upside down. I genuinely hope that Bush does do a good job, I think we all do; unfortunately I have the feeling that his idea of a good job is probably not the same as most of rest of the planet.
God damn man... Again, well said. I wish I could ahve said it, but I don't have the patience to type something like this without screaming and just giving up. You're not going to change his mind, and you probably won't even give him anything to think about.
Bush supporters are simply like that, generally speaking.
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:22:04
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@scottsboy: Thank you for an intelligent and well-considered reply.
@richy: When you have to resort to insulting the intelligence of a person you've never met, I'm going to consider that I've won the argument. I certainly am not going to dignify insults with argument; it's not worth my time. I've lived in Belgium five years, btw.
[ This Message was edited by: Grimslade on 2004-11-03 16:24 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:23:50
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So has bush won?
This message was posted from a T610
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:24:51
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@ayush. Yes. Kerry has given up. AP reports that he told Bush the country is too divided as it is, a very statesmanlike gesture, I think.
@richy: One last time. It's a neat trick to criticize someone else's supposed close-mindedness when all you can do is toss around insults.
[ This Message was edited by: Grimslade on 2004-11-03 16:27 ]
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Posted: 2004-11-03 17:25:48
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