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The issue isn't 3rd party software, just poor quality software, wherever it comes from.
Again it goes back to the difference between a real computer, and a phone with some add-on functionality. If you install poor quality software on your computer then you're likely to run into problems; if you exercise a little care then it'll be fine - the same applies to WM6.
Symbian is less susceptible simply because it's less powerful, and much more limited in what it will allow the user - or their software add-ons - to actually do in the first place.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-03-25 12:36 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-25 13:18:16
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@mib
Maybe your friend does'nt know how to use WM, I have over 60+ apps installed, no problems whatsoever, he needs to maintiain registry, make sure the right apps are stored in the right places, such as storage or device etc..
I have a Nokia 6600 and its worthless as a phone or a smartphone, its so slow that it takes me ages to open messaging, and it crashes on me several times a day. Symbian 9.3 with S60 FP2 sucks because my 6600 cant perform well
And iam running SPB apps on my TyTn2 with no issues, maybe you're using a cracked version, sometimes the cracked version has some issues.
Mind you I'm not anti S60 or anti any OS, but mindless criticism of any OS imo is uncalled for. You must first understand whom the prodcut was trgeted at before criticizing a product, I seriously doubt the TyTn2 was aimed at school going? kids.
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Akshay
http://www.flickr.com/photos/akshaydashrath/[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-25 13:31 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-25 14:29:34
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Hi all
I totally agree that a lot of problems with all platforms can usually to be traced to some piece of 3rd party software that causes a conflict and is why i only ever install what i actually need, rather than just what looks good or impresses.
Some here keep mentioning that WM is more powerful for real computing needs and can do more real computing type apps would anyone like to elaborate on just what they feel WM can do that S60 can't As i am pretty sure most if not all can be achieved by adding software to S60 but would be interested to see just what you feel WM can do that S60 can't as see if this is a correct assumption or not.
Marc
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Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Dogmanns Nokia E90 Blog @
http://dogmann.vox.com/
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-25 13:30 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-25 14:30:01
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@Marc,
1. We'll for one writing an app for WM is so much more easier no Symbian signed crap.
2. You can run scripts, scripts are basically code without a UI that can do tiny little helpful things for you.
3. While Symbian supports C++(in symbian form) and Java to a limited extent in WM I can program in C, Pascal, C++, .NET, J2ME(different JVMs offer different capabilities), J2SE(limited extent) with a certain JVM. Thus you get freedom to program.
4. Very few restricted APIs(Symbian signed again). The restricted APIs make Symbian a bit less powerful.
5. Symbian though has a few advantages with better hardware-software interaction as the number of types of devices are more limited and controlled by Nokia, while WM is developed on a wide range of platforms the hardware-software interaction is not as portable as Symbian(eg: answering machine software works on very few hardware platforms in WM).
6. WM offers open access to most of th system files, making editing the OS much easier.
7. You can see how much more can be written on WM by looking at the apps available, battery gauges(tell you about the battery output at the sec), temperature gauges, replacememt shells, stuff like Wisbar, none of that stuff on Symbian other than gdesk which I have'nt used so cannotn comment upon. I'm just listing a few apps which are at the top of my mind, maybe symbian have similar. The sheer number of apps for WM(many of the fully free) outnumber the symbian ones although there are more Symbian phones, this itself is proof enough about how much easier it is to program powerful apps for WM
I am at the moment a beginner at programming and these are the few advantages I can list out, regarding core programming we'd need a developer who develops for both platforms to comment. Eventually you might have similar apps, but to achieve the end result is a much more tedious process than with WM only due to symbian signed, but Symbian signed is excellent for the end user, it heavily restricts the type of apps to be installed thus making the platform more stable, but its a developers nightmare(at least a beginners).
Hope this answers your question, or if you want a more technical one I can get back to you on that.
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Regards,
Akshay
http://www.flickr.com/photos/akshaydashrath/[ This Message was edited by: aksd on 2008-03-25 13:54 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-25 14:53:43
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@aksd:
In terms of IDE, wm definitely have the advantage but symbian is not far behind. Scripting (in the form of python) is available. Plus .NET support is in the work.
For us end-users, we are just interested in capability provided by the platform. Like you say, you will be hard-pressed to find a good call manager (incl. answering m/c) or call recording for wm. And I still can't find a profile manager for wm that work as well as bestprofile/handyprofile in S60. And some other apps that come to mine are: native lotus notes sync, upnp support and themes. And lastly (though this is nitpick) why can't wm has a clock screensaver that is visible at the time without draining the battery.
What WM excels is the standby screen with its plug-ins like showing at a glance info like weather etc.
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Posted: 2008-03-25 15:59:45
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@mib
.NET on the Symbian is worthless imo if theres still going to be symbian signed, its still going to be difficult for the tiny developers. And you're still going to have the restricted APIs THAT is what makes symbian a bit less powerful.
Thats what I've been trying to say, if a particular device does'nt cater to your needs does'nt make it inferior, I dont have need for an answering machine or a profile manager, all i need is ring+vibrate or vibrate, thats about it, I need raw processing power
, so I go WM, does'nt mean Symbian is any less just becuase I dont use it
. Its upto the consumer to decide what he wants in a phone and purchase accordingly.
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Posted: 2008-03-25 16:48:53
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@akd
I actually didn't mean apps that people write themselves but want to install as just how small a percentage of people need to do that really. I was talking more about things like Symb allowing full WiFi file sharing and remote access and the other types of functionality people wish to add, although i admit WM does indeed have more available apps many of them are duplicates.
But as you say we all want different things from our devices so choose what suits us best and have no problem with that as personally i hate the look of some of the WM home screens as for me they look far to busy but that's just what i like. But when it come to Multimedia S60 is far more powerful then even the to be released X1 as that mainly supports only 3gp not h.264@ 30fps as for h.264 it drops to 15fps.
Marc
_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Dogmanns Nokia E90 Blog @
http://dogmann.vox.com/
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-25 19:34 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-25 20:33:35
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Yep, it always comes down to what the individual user needs are. X1 looks tempting. Has almost everything I need. But I have yet to see how the true function of a phone like dialing a number is achieved.
The whole window panels or windows whatever they call it, doesn't appeal to me very much. This is why I ended up with an n95. Trade-offs. Low battery life. But oh well. I'll carry a charger in my pocket or a SOLIO.
As far as I know the X1 doesn't have TV out right? Deal breaker for me.
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Posted: 2008-03-25 23:35:50
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On 2008-03-25 20:33:35, Dogmann wrote:
I was talking more about things like Symb allowing full WiFi file sharing and remote access and the other types of functionality people wish to add, although i admit WM does indeed have more available apps many of them are duplicates.
I'm curious why you think those examples aren't available on WM??
Are you saying you can't use WM as a remote access terminal or to access files by wifi? Both those are one of the things I use most on my HW6900. I regularly access files on my home network, and regularly use the HW6900 to term serv into my customers servers. Or VNC when they don't have RDP (example Win2k machines).
It's possible the other way too, but I rarely need to remote access my WM phone. I usually use Active Sync to grab files off my HW6900.
tbh honest I've always found it easier to use WM for these types of things than S60.
You are right though for the end user s60 and WM are identical in the sense that the end user just wants functionality that can be added easily and here having the right app to do so is the most important aspect. WM has far more application support than s60, including duplicates.
But to call s60 handsets "mini-computers" is only comparable to using windows only to install and run programs. If you like tweaking (above and beyond installing and using apps), then WM is unbeatable as far as the ability to firstly: program and script stuff yourself, and secondly: dig into the OS's guts and tweak it without the aid of anything more than a reg editor and a text editor.
I know this doesn't make a difference to the average end user, but for tech heads it does.
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Posted: 2008-03-26 00:36:01
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@Max
No i was asking what WM has in the way of available apps either free or paid for that S60 doesn't which is what is being suggested. Not as askd has pointed out the ability to write your own apps or reconfigure the registry but what S60 is missing that WM has.
As IMO the majority of users have little or no interest in being able to write their own apps or mess around with the registry they want it just to work and do what they want easily. As for writing your own apps that really is geeky and far beyond most users needs or what they want from their device IMO.
People are happy to claim WM is more powerful and can do more yet i can't really think of many if at all any apps or functions that be achieved on a WM device that can't on a S60 Device. Well not that a lot of people would want or need and when it comes to Multimedia IMO WM is definitely less powerful.
As for it being wrong to call some S60 devices mini computers i disagree completely my E90 is smaller has more Ram and more processing power then either of my Toshiba Libretto's had running Win 95 or NT and does all they could and more. It may surprise you that i have never had any interest or need to write my own apps or tweak registries besides which i wouldn't even know where to start and would think neither would the majority of users either. Those that would and want to are definitely the minority IMO.
Marc
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Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Tom Tom 6
Dogmanns Nokia E90 Blog @
http://dogmann.vox.com/
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER
[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-03-26 00:46 ]
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Posted: 2008-03-26 01:38:33
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