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@Carkitter

It would actually be funny if the very things you accuse me of weren't exactly the behaviors you constantly exhibit. You can never see any of SE's failings or wrong doings but always have an answer for their actions and a justification for it. Plus of course just how right what their doing is for the current situation no high ends or smart phones or what ever they do is always the right thing isn't it?

Yet despite all your claims what's happening they are failing that's what they have lost market share and dropped to 5th and they are no longer making good profits. They have sacked most of their UIQ staff and 2,000 SE staff all this whilst there flagship Cybershot failed to perform and even after 10 months is still buggy so is no longer going to be produced but hey it's all good isn't it.

Whilst all around you can see these failings you just can't or won't, i actually feel sorry that you are so consumed with what after all is just a phone company that it is like your way of life you feel the need to defend it always. You just can't face the reality just like SE can't and this is why they are in so much trouble they abused their customers trust not just once but repeatedly by delivering not fit for purpose devices. So now even once loyal SE fans have had to go elsewhere for their devices.

Believe it or not nearly all of us here where at some time Ericsson and SE fans i really don't think any of us want to see SE fail. But telling SE they are still doing a great job when they aren't does them no favors. Those of us that have criticized them in the past and do so now do so in the vain hope they will wake up and change and once more be the company whose products we aspired to own. Not just more of the same bug ridden mediocre trash they seem to feel they can get away with selling us because until something changes they are writing their own destiny and destroying themselves in the process.

@Sony a

Sorry if my grammar isn't to your liking but as i am on 240mg of OxyContin a day due to pain it's quite amazing i can post at all. You try taking that much pain meds and see how you do, i doubt you'd even be awake.

I was also reading something interesting the other day by a phycologist about just this sort of thing on the Internet. Those with personality and inferiority complexes attempting to belittle others over spelling mistakes in posts to try and make themselves feel bigger and more important maybe you should seek some help.

Marc



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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-08-18 02:16 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-18 03:15:51
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actually I think the use of "an" is correct in this case. The use of "an" is a phonetic rule ie: it's used to make it easier to speak. Since "SE" is pronounced "ess-ee", I would think the use of "an SE" is correct. You wouldn't say "a SE phone" when speaking would you?

Anyway, while I often don't agree with dogmann, I agree with him about picking on grammer in posts. Unless someone is actually claiming to be superior in the field of grammer, it's inappropriate to pick on their use of grammer in a post.

That my view is.

However, as to SE dying? That's a joke. They are doing very well in many segments of the market, and while they haven't made the growths we all hoped they would, they are still overall maintaining their ground.

The truth is I see more people with SE phones now than I did 2 years ago.

Nokia have responded well to SE's assault on the market, and this is why SE have not gained the ground we think they should have. It's not because SE phones are failures, it's just that Nokia are damn good competitors.

Also Samsung have put a wedge in the market too and are gaining ground with some appealing handsets. It just means if SE still intend to increase market share they need to keep up the pressure. The question is who will cede ground first? SE, Samsung, or Nokia?

Time will tell.



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Posted: 2008-08-18 04:23:24
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@Dogmann

I can see SE's failing where there are some, I've even posted about them.
But unlike you I can also see their successes.

You call all SE's press statements BS.
You claim SE is deliberately targeting customers for humiliation.
You write off anyone who agrees with SE as naive or blind.
You call SE products unfit for purpose.
You criticise SE in every post.
You even criticise unreleased products and jeer at their release dates.
You support those who criticise prototype phones obtained by dubious means.
You twist statisics and claim only you know the truth.

What makes you think SE want you as a customer after all this? With customers like you who needs enemies?



I honestly have no idea, you'll need to ask those who voted for him I guess.
I know of Another member who argued in the same deluded way and dodged facts just like Dogmann. He was very popular.
Perhaps emotive, irrational criticism draws votes.

@Max

Careful, if you sound to sensible you'll draw attention to yourself.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-08-18 03:32 ]

[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-08-18 03:40 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-18 04:26:02
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cakitter, I tend to agree with most of what you have said, it does sometimes seem like dogmann has nothing good to say, which doesn't leave a person thinking of him as a shining light of balance and reason.

But I think many of dogmanns points are valid, it's just that they are all biased towards the negatives and never emphasise the postives.

I guess it's okay to have a devil's advocate in our midst.

In my case I've never been stung by SE like dogmann has, but then I've also never bought a phone until I've had a chance to see it tested in the market place. I'm a realist that way. I always give a phone a few months to see what problems arise. From my perspective, every OEM has phone models that are complete flops so I find it hard to get critical of any single OEM. They are all capable of slapping the customer in the face with a completely screwed up piece of hardware.

My money is too important to me to just throw away on a crash monkey.
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Posted: 2008-08-18 04:38:52
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@Max

Over here we have no choice, the phones are well known by the time VodaNZ gets around to releasing them.

Dogmann's poor spelling, punctuation and grammar stand out but the only time I called him on it was when he criticised the reading comprehension of others and the general ability here to understand business reports - sort of a Pot/Kettle situation IMO. Otherwise he gets away with it. One can't pick on every grammatical error or else one would be busy all day. I often edit my posts later for spelling or grammar errors I've missed, because I want to be understood clearly.

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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-08-18 06:36 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-18 04:53:04
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I just noticed I spelt positive wrong in my last post, but I couldn't be bothered correcting it

Here in Oz we pretty much have the same problem as you - we know all about phone problems well before they arrive here!
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Posted: 2008-08-18 05:00:00
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That's the whole point right there! SE has been in the lead for about 5 years and seemed to relax and took it easy thereby let the competition take advantage.

They were the first in many features that they ignored later,ie, wifi (P990i), QVGA 30fps (W900i), fisrt mp cam phone, etc. Of course there are firsts from the other manufacturers, the point is SE has become the follower. They are expensive whereas the competition offers the same features at a better price. I've said it before that they could get away with it before because they had the products that were ahead of the competition.

@carkitter

Dogmann has a point there in that a company that is investing more in R&D then turn around and cut jobs is having problems in financial terms. They also mentioned lack of interest in their high end devices yet the competition is doing well. For once I'll exclude Nokia and go with Samsung, 50% increase in profit says a lot for the "tough market conditions".

Even the new CEO has said that SE has too many "cut and paste" phones he wants to get rid of. Like I said, I think 6 months from now his atrategy will start to unfold and hopefully for the good of SE. We recently saw SE cancel some models which I would attribute to Dick's comments. Another hurdle for them is taking long to release a phone (X1 and the C905 which already has to deal with the xenon-less symbian INNOV8) which ultimately hurts its sales as better equipped and cheaper solutions arrive before.
I know the argument about the different markets for the two phones, do you think people will care much after the Samsung reaches the market first?

The facts are that they've sold less phones this year, and that is coming from their report, does suggest people aren't too pleased with their offerings as before. Let's not also ignore the fact that the P990i and now the K850i are not doing them any justice because people will read (user) reviews, friends' experiences and phone shops also have an input- be it good or bad- that can ruin or build a company's reputation. SE hasn't done too well in that department of assuring its customers they are reliable.
Then there's their marketing of the brand that needs a 'shake up', it would seem that they are not too keen on advertising as much as the competition which does increase product awareness and sales.

Look at the Samsung INNOV8, it outdoes anything that is currently on the market in terms of specs ( yes, I know about the Xenon flash). My point is SE had the P series which, up until the P990i's announcement, destroyed the competition and should have maintained that record. For 2 and a half years SE hasn't responded to the competition and consumers are quick to pick on that and look elsewhere. SE has the technology but they decide not to compete when it matters and that dents their image.

Like I wrote in my earlier post, next year Q1 we will see where SE's headed. I do believe Dick has a pretty good idea of what's going on by now.

I for one still hold the belief that SE is lagging behind and need to up their game to get back to the top. As max_wedge has pointed out, Nokia responded extremely well to SE's 5 year onslaught now it is SE's time to do the same.
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Posted: 2008-08-18 15:18:08
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@EMS06
"They were the first in many features that they ignored later,ie, wifi (P990i), QVGA 30fps (W900i), fisrt mp cam phone, etc. "

the p990i wasn't the first wi-fi phone. the moto mpx had wi-fi, and that was released in 2004.

SE didn't release the first gsm MP phone. the world's first megapixel phone was the j-phone in 2003. on gsm, it was the sharp gx30.

the w900 was not the first phone with QVGA 30fps. the xcute dv1 did vga video recording at 30fps in 2005

SE have never ever done anything new that was later taken up by other manufacturers. they're not an innovative company.
where are you getting your information from on these dodgy and inaccurate facts and figures?





"the point is SE has become the follower."
they always have been

[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2008-08-18 16:04 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-18 17:00:12
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In relation to Nokia they were in the lead position. They easily surrendered that lead.
For instance, I wrote "From once I'll exclude Nokia..."

This is one of the reasons I stayed with SE cause they trumped the market leader back then.
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[ This Message was edited by: EMS06 on 2008-08-18 16:12 ]

[ This Message was edited by: EMS06 on 2008-08-18 16:23 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-18 17:06:41
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Interesting to see this argument still churning on. It seems to me there's no real argument, the figures speak for themselves, SE's product range of the last year or two is failing. I believe it will continue to fail until they make some genuine change to their approach, and there's no sign of that happening. The Walkman and Cybershot lines are stagnating, and they've gone from having abject failure at the high end (P990 etc) to nothing at all - literally nothing to compete with the latest HTCs, Iphone, Blackberry etc. Embarrasing.

Yes the X1 will be out soon (ie October/November/December/January) but it's old news already - the Touch Pro is already out and cannibalising it's market, leaving it as something of a white elephant for the fanboys only.

SE need some bold moves, and fast, but I just don't think they've got it in them anymore.
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Posted: 2008-08-18 17:26:43
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