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On 2008-08-18 01:06:23, Dicky Snapples wrote:
On 2008-08-18 01:00:47, carkitter wrote:
;just irritating really and we don't need it.
if thats the case why has he won best debater two years running ....
I also would like to know that...is this the theme of the new X-files movie??? Because its unexplanable for me
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Posted: 2008-08-18 17:41:16
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On 2008-08-18 17:00:12, Brightspark wrote:
@EMS06
"They were the first in many features that they ignored later,ie, wifi (P990i), QVGA 30fps (W900i), fisrt mp cam phone, etc. "
the p990i wasn't the first wi-fi phone. the moto mpx had wi-fi, and that was released in 2004.
SE didn't release the first gsm MP phone. the world's first megapixel phone was the j-phone in 2003. on gsm, it was the sharp gx30.
the w900 was not the first phone with QVGA 30fps. the xcute dv1 did vga video recording at 30fps in 2005
SE have never ever done anything new that was later taken up by other manufacturers. they're not an innovative company.
where are you getting your information from on these dodgy and inaccurate facts and figures?
"the point is SE has become the follower."
they always have been
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2008-08-18 16:04 ]
You miss the point. They may not have been the first but often they were responsible for popularising these things. For example even though they weren't the first to incorporate mp3 playing, they popularised it with the walkman phones. Due to the walkman branding, they have legitimised mp3 players as phones.
They inspired the market to make decent camera phones that were more than gimmicks. Including the FIRST AF based camera phone and the first digicam style camera ui (aka the ground breaking K750)
They have also innovated on the j2me front, bringing jsr's first to market and including more jsr's earlier than mosts other oem's (java multi-tasking, jsr-75 to name a couple). Not to mention the first to offer task management via activity menu on a non-smartphone.
They also innovated in formfactors: swivel, the curved slide of the x1, P1 keyboard, acelerometer based controls.
Other factors such as light sensitive display adjustment, which not necessarily the first to market, among the first.
They may follow in some areas but they lead in others. Maybe you should check your own information, it's no better than EMS06's
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Posted: 2008-08-18 17:47:43
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I'm not going to say too much about the merits of SE's phones except: no phone on the market with HSDPA yet? I find that quite astonishing!
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Posted: 2008-08-18 17:55:01
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"You miss the point. They may not have been the first but often they were responsible for popularising these things. For example even though they weren't the first to incorporate mp3 playing, they popularised it with the walkman phones. Due to the walkman branding, they have legitimised mp3 players as phones.
They inspired the market to make decent camera phones that were more than gimmicks. "
i haven't missed the point at all. what makes you think the other manufacturers were responding to SE? isn't that just your assumption without anything of substance to back it up?
"They have also innovated on the j2me front, bringing jsr's first to market and including more jsr's earlier than mosts other oem's (java multi-tasking, jsr-75 to name a couple). Not to mention the first to offer task management via activity menu on a non-smartphone."
thats not innovation. it's called using a separate chip for java.
"Including the FIRST AF based camera phone and the first digicam style camera ui (aka the ground breaking K750) "
nope. try again. docomo did that.
"They also innovated in formfactors: swivel, the curved slide of the x1, P1 keyboard, acelerometer based controls."
wow! you really believe this rubbish don't you? motorola did the first swivel
like i say, SE never did anything new that was later taken up by other manufacturers.
[ This Message was edited by: Brightspark on 2008-08-18 17:12 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-18 18:02:18
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They inspired the market to make decent camera phones that were more than gimmicks. Including the FIRST AF based camera phone and the first digicam style camera ui (aka the ground breaking K750)
I think the sharp 902sh came before the k750, granted it has camera issues, but an older phone with af and optical zoom
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Posted: 2008-08-18 18:51:40
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On 2008-08-18 18:02:18, Brightspark wrote:
i haven't missed the point at all. what makes you think the other manufacturers were responding to SE? isn't that just your assumption without anything of substance to back it up?
because there was a growth in these areas directly after SE started to push in that area. Maybe SE wasn't responsible for kick starting the market (though it seems clear to me) but they were the first to see the full potential of camera phones and music phones. - it's clear and if you can't see it you are blind. Whether they inspired other manufacturers or not it's clear SE were the first to grasp the full market potential of dedicated music and camera handets.
nope. try again. docomo did that.
so a japanese only company was first with AF? so what. If it wasn't for SE taking the initiative in the western market it wouldn't have happened till several years later.
(not to mention SE innovation in J2ME which you didn't bother to argue with for obvious reason)
wow! you really believe this rubbish don't you? motorola did the first swivel
so I stand corrected. But who remembers the motorola?? Again the formfactor is more popular in SE hands.
like i say, SE never did anything new that was later taken up by other manufacturers.
All oem's today have followed SE on j2me implementations, Nokia has brought out music branded phones only after SE brought out walkman phones, Nokia brought out AF based phones not after docomo but after SE did so.
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Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-08-19 01:24 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-18 19:07:10
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On 2008-08-18 17:55:01, Ruudfood wrote:
I'm not going to say too much about the merits of SE's phones except: no phone on the market with HSDPA yet? I find that quite astonishing!
W910, K850, Z750, K660, W980 and several more that I can't think of currently.....
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Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-08-19 01:25 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-18 19:31:06
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On 2008-08-18 19:31:06, max_wedge wrote:
On 2008-08-18 17:55:01, Ruudfood wrote:
I'm not going to say too much about the merits of SE's phones except: no phone on the market with HSDPA yet? I find that quite astonishing!
W910, K850, Z750, K660, W980 and several more that I can't think of currently.....
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Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750
[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-08-19 01:25 ]
Sorry, I meant BUSINESS phone
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Posted: 2008-08-19 12:54:58
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You guys may have seen me mention this in the X1 thread but I think it's particularly relevant here and puts SE's prformance in a new light.
"The shape of the smartphone and mobile data markets"
As you can see from the 2nd diagram the market for basic voice/text handsets is massive (approx 65%) and we know it's growing very quickly due to the developing markets in China, India, Africa and Latin America.
The remaining 35% is shrinking. It could be due to any combination of factors such as Developed countries being in recession ATM, reduced disposable income due to high fuel and food prices, perhaps the high spec of current phones has left people satisfied and unwilling to upgrade, maybe some poeple held off while waiting to see what the iPhone 3G looked like? Before you laugh, remember Apple sold 1 Million of the version 2 in 3 days...
Anyway, the research shows that
and Cybershot phones are in competition with everything from ROKR and iPhone to Blackberry and WM devices and that the much requested All-In-One devices are doomed to commercial failure in the Zone of Death. As I've said before, SE are not far from returning to success, they just need a new approach. New good-looking phones, gaming phones, addition of improved audio in
models, more smartphones than ever before, some high spec flagship models (W902, C905) should arrest the slide IMO as people WILL pay extra for these things but not for things like HSDPA, Shake control and Track ID as SE though they would in the past.
I don't know alot about the redundancies but I'll speculate some are UIQ employees no longer needed due to the Symbian Foundation (not caused by SE's performance) while the others are probably due to the mid/high end market shrinkage. I mean, how hard it is to make more low end phones (SE's stated aim, working alongside Sagem) compared to mid/high end phones. It's no wonder they find themselves with excess staff.
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Voted
Best Phone Review Esato Awards 2008!
[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-08-19 13:05 ]
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Posted: 2008-08-19 13:53:00
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On 2008-08-19 12:54:58, Ruudfood wrote:
Sorry, I meant BUSINESS phone
no worries. It's true no qwerty business phone has it, though G900 does. I think that at the time of the P1 (and W960, though not strictly a business phone) HSDPA on the UIQ platform was still not possible (or practical cost wise).
Now G900 is upon us and UIQ now has HSDPA, I expect the next SE UIQ business phone (if the rumours aren't true about UIQ disappearing) will have it. I think it's an issue of timing: SE just weren't ready for HSDPA when they brought out the P1.
If there is to be no more UIQ, then the next SE business phone will be a WM device imho (although I guess there is a VERY slim chance it could be s60). Whatever it is it will have HSDPA
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Posted: 2008-08-19 14:18:05
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