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On 2005-10-18 03:49:00, scotsboyuk wrote:
@Peter
It's interesting that you should attribute such events to God. How would a Muslim interpret such events? For example, in saying that natural disaster may be punishment for mankind's actions, how would that fit in with the deaths of innocents because of those natural disasters?
Verse 284 from Chapter 2 explains more in detail:
To Allah belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth. Whether ye show what is in your minds or conceal it, Allah Calleth you to account for it. He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and punisheth whom He pleaseth, for Allah hath power over all things.
The verse above states clearly that Almighty Allah punishes whom he wishes and whether that is an innocent person or a saint, what he knows we do not know and may never get to know. He has power over all things and can do whatever he wishes to do. Innocent lives are always tangled to natural disasters but as to why they are - Only he knows best.
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Posted: 2005-10-18 07:29:02
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On 2005-10-18 04:34:36, Gigs wrote:
Don't be offended by this PK but that last post makes you look like some sort of street preacher with a "Look at me i'm right, you're not" attitude.
I certainly wouldn't attribute earth quakes to your god. I grew up in a region that constantly had earthquakes, surely 1 of the 80000 people there had a good bone in their body.
If however your god is all the bad things then it must be every single natural phenomenon known. Gavity, light, wind, rain, the conversion process of water into snow, o-zone, barametric pressure etc.
If you'd said it was your opinion that those things are its doing then I'd have just shrugged it off, but that's not how your post reads imo.
Isn't paganism built around the fact that "mother nature" is god?
Surely if such huge disasters are "Gods Wrath" then what counts as his reward? A sunny day at the beach? Just being allowed to live? I'm sorry that I cannot buy at all.
Thats your view and i can see where you are coming from, however i am talking about what Islam states and what us Muslims believe. We believe that all things done on this planet are by Almighty Allahs wisdom and knowledge.
Verse 59 from Chapter 6 states his Power:
With Him are the keys of the unseen, the treasures that none knoweth but He. He knoweth whatever there is on the earth and in the sea. Not a leaf doth fall but with His knowledge: there is not a grain in the darkness or depths of the earth, nor anything fresh or dry green or withered, but is inscribed in a record clear to those who can read.
'Not a leaf doth fall but with His knowledge', that is one powerful statement by Almighty Allah, if he knows about every leaf drop on this planet then what does he not know about his creation us humans?
Us Muslims do believe that every natural disaster is by Allahs will and as i mentioned before he can punish who he wants to. This is a muslims perspective and i for one totally agree with it.
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Posted: 2005-10-18 07:37:16
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Quote:We believe that all things done on this planet are by Almighty Allahs wisdom and knowledge.
@peterkay, does that mean the power of Allah is limited only to this planet?
Kidding...
Quote:Verse 59 from Chapter 6 states his Power:
With Him are the keys of the unseen, the treasures that none knoweth but He. He knoweth whatever there is on the earth and in the sea. Not a leaf doth fall but with His knowledge: there is not a grain in the darkness or depths of the earth, nor anything fresh or dry green or withered, but is inscribed in a record clear to those who can read.
One more doubt, isn't The Koran the
words of Allah written down by followers of Prophet Mohammed?
But, That statement of yours clearly mentions Allah as a separate entity from the person who said it.
I mean How can Allah mention about himself as "he".
Does that mean those are not words of Allah but of someone who believes in him??
Or maybe Prophet Mohammed himself...
_________________
I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize
[ This Message was edited by: whizkidd on 2005-10-18 09:18 ]
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Posted: 2005-10-18 07:48:04
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i believe the quran is meant to be the words of mohammed as written by certain of his followers.
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Posted: 2005-10-18 08:16:15
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@Gelfen, found this on a SITE...
Now the question is, who wrote Quran or who was the author of Quran?
Hadith tells us that Muhammad was illiterate and was unable to read or write. So of course Muhammad did not write Quran. Muslims claim that Muhammad dictated the whole Quran to his followers and many of them memorized the Quranic verses word by word and later they wrote it down. The bottom line is that no one knows for sure who wrote the Quran.
After the death of Muhammad there was a time when Uthman the third Caliph of Islam ordered to burn all the copies of Quran except one. It was believed that there were variations in text and recitation practice of Quran at that time and so Uthman took this step. According to Quran and Hadith, Muhammad was the last prophet of Islam. So Uthman was not a prophet and we do not know whether he kept the valid and original Quran or destroyed it? We also do not know how he determined which one was the correct version of Quran?
Muslims claim that Quran was directly given by Allah and Sheikh Ahmed Deedat the Muslim Scholar and other Muslims have claimed that Quran is the word of God because it was written in first person speech unlike Bible, where third person speech is used. But the very first chapter of Quran is written in the third person speech.
Surah 1:1-7. "In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; Most Gracious, Most Merciful; Master of the Day of Judgment. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek. Show us the straight way, The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray."
This is not the only one example but there are many Surahs which are written in third person speech. So if we take the word of Muslim Scholars, Quran is not the word of God.
Peterkay could explain this better...
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Posted: 2005-10-18 08:25:57
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The Quran is a Message from Allah to humanity. It was transmitted to us in a chain starting from the Almighty Himself to the angel Gabriel to the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). This message was given to the Prophet (pbuh) in pieces over a period spanning approximately 23 years (610 CE to 622 CE). The Prophet (pbuh) was 40 years old when the Quran began to be revealed to him, and he was 63 when the revelation was completed. The language of the original message was Arabic, but it has been translated into many other languages.
The Quran is one leg of two which form the basis of Islam. The second leg is the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). What makes the Quran different from the Sunnah is primarily its form. Unlike the Sunnah, the Quran is quite literally the Word of Allah, whereas the Sunnah was inspired by Allah but the wording and actions are the Prophet's. The Quran has not been expressed using any human's words. Its wording is letter for letter fixed by no one but Allah.
Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was the final Messenger of Allah to humanity, and therefore the Quran is the last Message which Allah has sent to us. Its predecessors such as the Torah, Psalms, and Gospels have all been superceded. It is an obligation - and blessing - for all who hear of the Quran and Islam to investigate it and evaluate it for themselves. Allah has guaranteed that He will protect the Quran from human tampering, and today's readers can find exact copies of it all over the world. The Quran of today is the same as the Quran revealed to Muhammad (pbuh).
If the Quran is indeed the Word of God, then it is incumbent upon us to ascertain what should be its position in our lives, and our response to its truthfulness and greatness. Only if we comprehend the true position and true value of the Quran can we expect to derive the blessings which descend in abundance on he who knows the Word of God. What does not have any value or price attached to it; man consigns to some corner, does not spend time on, and uses it as a lifeless decorative piece. However, the object which one values and prizes, that is how much he keeps it near him at all times. He dies in his love for it and devotes himself in entirety to it.
Allow me to briefly discuss this great book so we may be able to comprehend its true station. This book is the completion of that promise of our Lord which he vowed upon dispatching man into the world:
"When there comes to you a guidance from me, whosoever follows my guidance, then on them there shall be no fear nor shall they grieve" (2:38).
When the first man, the Prophet Adam, was tested by God, he failed, due to the weaknesses which were made to inhere in the constitution of man: forgetfulness, weakness of will, and getting seduced by the wiles of Satan. Man is a frail and weak creature, as God says:
"And man was created weak" (4:28). Naturally, when Adam slipped in the first test, he must have experienced sadness, fear, and despair. But the reason behind Adam’s creation was to dispatch him to the earth as God’s vicegerent. Thus, he was assured by God of continuing guidance, and of eternal freedom of sadness and despair, as long as he followed this guidance.
The Quran is the book which, in the great battle between good and evil and in the lifetime preparation for the final reckoning, the day on which the entire creation will be in despair, provides a pleasant shade and pillar of support, a weapon, a source of salvation, and a straight and protected path which leads to success.
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Posted: 2005-10-18 12:55:18
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If natural disasters are caused by Allah why does he choose his follows (Muslims) to feel his wrath rather then westerners? I mean look at Britain, we very rarely every get stuck by massive natural disasters and we are (were) a Christian state.
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Posted: 2005-10-18 14:22:04
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Thats a good point, but there is every possibility that it can happen here and i just pray that it doesn't. In a few seconds he can hurt most of the land if he wills. Whether its the UK or Austrailia, he owns the land and he decides whats what.
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Posted: 2005-10-18 15:07:37
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i wont aim this just at peter as it seems a common theme though the major religions in the world.
do you feel comfortable believing in a so called all loving all knowing all powerful god.
that on a whim will strike down innocent people using weather, forms of cancer (which arent self inflicted) and other diseases ie geneic flaws- an indication of bad design by the creator
i dont see how the 2 can marry together. so how as religious people do you manage to over come these discrepancies is it literaly that you just have enough faith to ignore them?
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Posted: 2005-10-18 15:40:24
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I guess it boils down to how much faith you have on your religion. What i believe as a Muslim is whatever good or bad happens it is done by the creator himself. He is the best judge and only he knows best regarding all affairs.
Verse 26 from Chapter 3 states:
Say: "O Allah. Lord of Power And Rule, Thou givest power to whom Thou pleasest, and Thou strippest off power from whom Thou pleasest: Thou enduest with honour whom Thou pleasest, and Thou bringest low whom Thou pleasest: In Thy hand is all good. Verily, over all things Thou hast power.
Very true indeed, he has power over all things, only he can give honour and give low to the people.
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Posted: 2005-10-18 16:11:57
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