>
New Topic
>
Reply<
Esato Forum Index
>
General discussions >
Other manufacturers
> Nokia N90 Success in Doubt?
Bookmark topic
Quote:
On 2005-09-06 02:53:52, max_wedge wrote:
@Orange, yes I do mean quantity. I'm not arguing that the N90 has no advantages over the K750 (smartphone, 3G and Edge are the only real advantages), but simply that the market prefers the K750, and that anyone needing smartphone, edge and 3g would likely wait for a better alternative (in form factor and ergonomics) than the N90.
This wasn't my point in my previous post. I was just saying that you solely rely on guesses and assumptions instead of fact when saying that K750i is killing N90 in sales figures. Selling figures of these two phones are the thing you simply can't say you know for a fact. And that's due to a fact that you don't get those anywhere. I'm just saying that it's pretty naive from anybody to refer to the sales figures, because you don't know them as a fact.
--
Posted: 2005-09-06 08:44:48
Edit :
Quote
Uh..
, you guys look but you dont see.
Refer to my previous post that jest at the K750 (mimicking what some of you is doing with the N90) with all its so-called "weak" points. But why is it that K750 is not sinking? The reason is simple. Those "weak" points may not be the deal-breaker for the users because their main consideration maybe something else. Similar for N90. Those points that you keep barking on like size/weight may not be the main considerations for people buying N90.
Quote: I will say that I don't need sales figures to confirm the success of the K750 over the N90.
Well, then it seems like whole lot of hot air to me
. You have nothing to support this. Even if (and that's a helluva big IF) you have, it still doesnt proof a thing even if sales figure of K750 is larger than N90. Because both phones are in different segments, for the K750 to match N90 in success, the sales figure may have to be several folds higher.
Before you guys run amok (and slash yourself
), just consider the P900/910 only sold 350K units quarterly and you already jumping up and down and declaring it a success. Contrast this to Nk6680 which most probably sold 8 times more than P910.
So based on
your kind of logic, SE need to sell 8 times more K750 than N90 before K750 can even be considered a success.
. (K750 is in same price range of 6680 and N90 in same range as P910). What do you have to say on this?.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2005-09-06 10:23 ]
--
Posted: 2005-09-06 09:16:10
Edit :
Quote
Well you read me wrong again mib
I am not a big fan of the P910. The P800 was a huge success, the P910 is just limping along. You are forever misconstrueing me as a diehard SE fan, yet I just simply have a different view and that view is not determined by a love of SE but by my analysis of the situation, which may or may not be right, but which is based on reason and not emotion.
I base my belief that K750 is doing better on several factors
1. The N90 was marketed as a multimedia camera phone, as is the K750.
2. Just about every lay person I speak to lately has heard of the K750. Very few people know about the N90
3. Phone stores everywhere have K750's, the N90 on the other hand isn't being stocked in anywhere the same numbers (this is according to the people who work in the stores) hence there isn't a demand for it.
There are many smartphone alternatives to the N90 that people who need smartphone features will choose over the N90 - and anyone who doesn't need a 2 megapixel camera has masses of really cool and petite smartphones to choose from, and still a good choice of 3G phones, so why would they buy the N90? There will be a very small niche market of people for whom the N90 will be an ideal choice.
So I guess you could say it is a success for those people, but I'm sure the peeps who bought P910's feel that phone is just as successful. Does this make the P910 a success? No. The only successful thing about the P910 is that it has only just allowed SE to claim they still have a smartphone in their line up. See, I am an SE fan yet I am under no illusions as to the positioning of the P910. You seem to think that SE have lost the smartphone race, whereas I am holding back my judgement until the next SE smartphone is released. If it is a killer, it may completely change SE's postioning in the smartphone market. (especially if they also bring out a hard screen uiq3 phone)
The N90 is a success in that it has provided a test bed for technology incorporated into the N91 and N70, but it is surely not a market success.
FOCUS: Nokia's N90 Isn't Ticket To High-End Success:
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/13809.php
Note: the article below is a good example of why I feel 3G is not yet a big factor in handset choice, especially in terms of corporate application, where you'd think broadband pda devices would be in high demand (but aren't):
http://www.techworld.com/mobi[....]eatureid=1194&page=1&pagepos=2
--
Posted: 2005-09-06 10:50:14
Edit :
Quote
@max_wedge
It is still too early to know whether N90 is a success or not because it is not widely available yet. The point that I dont agree is that success of N90 is somehow tied to how well K750 performed. For me, it is very clear that both these phones are catering to different market segment.
Some way back I have already told you I don't like N90. N90 is a niche product which means the price will be kept high and it wont sell in volume. So how do you define success for this kind of product? The fact that it can come out to the market is already a success of some sort. (Look at how many "high tech" phones that were launched and did not see the light of day).
If P800/900/910 sales volume is the measure of success, then I believe N90 would have no problem achieving this kind of sales volume. (In just one quarter, Nokia is selling something like 7million smartphones and N90 sales just need to be 5% of this to equal to P** series).
--
Posted: 2005-09-06 12:20:56
Edit :
Quote
@max_wedge
Yes. That article has summed it up nicely, again.
It is being marketed on the strength of its 2.0 mp cam but then again other handsets have 2.0 mp or more and are half the weight!!
With the N90 NOkia has attempted to carve itself a niche in the high-end, which is unfamiliar territory for Nokia.
Like the article says, NOkia will be relying on its brand kudos, which means tempting existing NOkia customers into forking out more money for a more complex device, rather than tempting new customers away from devices with similar performance/features that are both cheaper and smaller.
@mib_1800
It is possible to define any product as a success regardless of sales.
Does it have a wow factor?
Does it have people running to the bank to extend their overdraft?
Is "N90" the word on the streets?
Is "N90" the new bling?
It looks like analysts don't think so.
[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2005-09-06 11:49 ]
--
Posted: 2005-09-06 12:41:20
Edit :
Quote
@goldenface, excellent points. Nokia fumbled the ball a little with the N90.
mib, I agree that N90 would do as well as the P910 if it continued to sell. But with the N91 alternative, and alternatives from other manufacturers, I don't expect the N90 to achieve any more significant sales before it is withdrawn. So it may not be on the market long enough to necessarily even match the P910 in sales.
I think it is actually proof of SE's marketing ability that they have been able to keep the P910 selling at all. Yet Nokia failed in their marketing of the N90 before it really even got a go on.
Personally I feel SE are only just gearing up to be a market force. They have been a slow starter, but let's watch and see what happens in the next two years. Note: SE are slowly gaining market share on LG. I expect that trend will start to accelerate.
--
Posted: 2005-09-06 12:51:24
Edit :
Quote
Quote:
On 2005-09-05 15:26:17, Arez wrote:
Just saw first n90 publicity here in Portugal...guess what, theyīre focusing all their campaign in the fantastic Carl Zeiss lens, made in glass, and their fantastic quality!!! LOL
Yes, those famous expensive lens that coundnīt cope with SE cheap plastic lens in the k750/w800
So, isnīt this a FAILLURE??? All the cost of that thing, the size, the weight, and they couldnīt be better than the k750 in their maind advertized feature??? This marketing campaign just makes me LAUGH, but some guys will buy it "because Nokia says its the best and has CZ lense"
Incredible! Someone understands the basics of marketing and how it can fail!
I think it would do Nokia better if in fact they market the N90 as a multimedia player device due to its superior - size, resolution, clarity - instead of the huge camera lense. BUT they didnt THIS IS THEIR FAILURE.
A better comparison will be the same time period of raw sales per region between the K750i & the upcoming N70 if given the same time frame of chance in sales as the K750i.
--
Posted: 2005-09-07 04:20:58
Edit :
Quote
@goldenface:
Quote:@mib_1800
It is possible to define any product as a success regardless of sales.
Does it have a wow factor?
Does it have people running to the bank to extend their overdraft?
Is "N90" the word on the streets?
Is "N90" the new bling?
It looks like analysts don't think so.
I think you push the limit of subjectivity too much. It is just a bl**dy phone by the way. It is not a $200K car. If you look at novelty factor, N90 certainly have. Have you seen a phone in this form factor with so many rotating hinges. There is the great flexibility to position camera at any angle which no other phone can.
Contrast this to K750/W800. It is just a lump of monotonous block/brick like K700 before it and the T650 before it and the T610 before it. Where is wow factor? You have no idea how K750 is performing right now. Dont forget that K750 is SE bread-and-butter phone (and not niche like N90) and it should at least achieve the sales level of T610 before you can call it a success. If K750 cannot make that, then SE may drop further behind in market share. If N90 flops, there is no impact on Nokia at all.
The mass market 2MP phones are coming very soon. Let's see how well K750/W800 stands up to that.
@max_wedge:
Quote:I don't expect the N90 to achieve any more significant sales before it is withdrawn. So it may not be on the market long enough to necessarily even match the P910 in sales.
Not withdrawn but replaced with the next generation. This is Nokia's way, where renewal is always forthcoming. P900/P910 just hangs around because SE could not get their act together on smartphone strategy.
Quote:I think it is actually proof of SE's marketing ability that they have been able to keep the P910 selling at all. .
But it is still dismal to say the least.
Quote: Personally I feel SE are only just gearing up to be a market force. They have been a slow starter, but let's watch and see what happens in the next two years. Note: SE are slowly gaining market share on LG. I expect that trend will start to accelerate.
I thought SE was ahead of LG before it was overtaken by LG
The only reason why SE stays at the same rank is because Siemens was on the brink. Otherwise, it would have drop another rung.
Instead of pouring cold water all the time, I would like to say SE should have no problem reclaming its position ahead of LG again.
--
Posted: 2005-09-07 06:23:56
Edit :
Quote
"If K750 cannot make that, then SE may drop further behind in market share. If N90 flops, there is no impact on Nokia at all."
Agree partially. SE have expanded their range with a wider variety of handsets in different price ranges and equipment levels: K700/500/300, K750/W800/W550 etc. So they aren't as reliant on the K750 as they were on the T610. However I do think the K750 will be a big seller, whether it is on par with the T610 is hard to say at this stage.
Regarding SE's tardiness on the smartphone front - it does look tardy from the outside, but I think they have had a shitload of work to do to get UIQ3 stable and that has taken them by surprise. To their credit, I think they are trying to get it right first time rather than waste big development dollars grafting UIQ2 into modern hardware as a P910 replacement, only to have to bring out a UIQ3 range shortly after.
Some have argued that they should have bit the bullet and bought into s60, but I think they have their heads screwed on right if they are infact attempting to develop their own modern smartphone os in the UIQ3. It will save them big bucks and allow them more control over development in the long term.
I think it's a good move.
--
Posted: 2005-09-07 07:02:54
Edit :
Quote
@max_wedge:
Quote:...attempting to develop their own modern smartphone os in the UIQ3. It will save them big bucks and allow them more control over development in the long term.
I think UIQ3 is a Symbian (as in the company) initiative/development. Not so sure how this will help SE to have more control as Symbian itself is a big part owned by Nokia. Seems very quiet on the UIQ3 front lately. There is always the sticky point whether Symbian wants to ruffle the feathers of Nokia, its biggest shareholder (and also its biggest buyer - in units term, of the symbian O/S) as UIQ3 will compete directly with Series60.
Even if UIQ3 gets off the ground, there is still the question mark whether Nokia (as the biggest shareholder of Symbian) would take any step to stop future investment in UIQ3 as it would be wasteful since Nokia is already spending money developing the equivalent Series60. This is more so if the only buyer of UIQ3 is SE.
--
Posted: 2005-09-07 11:31:49
Edit :
Quote
New Topic
Reply
