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On 2005-04-28 13:45:03, Yazan24 wrote:
Surely a smaller jump is considered less innovative than a leap in technology, so upgrading from 1.3->2 MP isnt the same technological advance as putting a cam in a phone for the first time.
Isn't it? Why do you assume that it was difficult to integrate a camera into a mobile phone in the first place? It is far more difficult to actually integrate a camera that is as good as a dedicated product into a mobile phone. However, you would label than an 'improvement' not innovation.
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The memory stick duo isnt a new way of storing, its just a new casing, it incorporates the same existing technology, or most of the existing technology, and doesnt introduce many new things to the table, and is hence considered less or not innovative, since it doesnt introduce anything technologically ground breaking like the first removable memory modules.
Which were? Floppy disks? Cassettes? They use magnetic storage principles. A memorystick does the same job as a floppy disk, but it looks different. According to your logic that isn't innovation, just an improvement with a change in aethetics.
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This is the same with increase in quality, nothing new is being introduced, existing technology is just being tweaked and perfected, and hence nothing technologically more advanced than the rest is being introduced, an existing technology is improved.
Yet you still don't seem to recognise the simple fact that this is all any technology is. It is all any technology ever can be. Any advance in technology is based upon exisitng technology, we simply improve and refine it.
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And Yes I would call them Improvements not innovations.
An improvement can be an innovation.
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An innovation can also be taking an existing GENERAL product that is innovative in its own field, implementing it in another field.
What exactly is a 'general' product'?
What you are trying to say I believe is that a product, which is innovative in a particular field can also be innovative in a field it isn't normally related to. In other words ... an exisitng technology, adapted and perhaps modified can be considered innovative even though it isn't necessarily a new product or technology anymore, in essence, what I have been saying all along.
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I dont mean memory sticks -> Duo, by general I refer to them as their purpose, expandable removable memory.
Why this pedantic dalliance with symantics? Is it perhaps to gloss over the fact that different formats can and are innovative in their own right? You can refer to them as banjos if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that they should still be considered as seperate products. One would hardly consider a VHS tape and a music cassette as one and the same.
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Camera, not as 3MP not as CMOS or CCD sensors, as cameras.
What utter rubbish! If you take that sort of nonsense to its logical conclusion you would have to consider a Victorian box camera as being the same as the latest Sony cybershot! A WWI Tigermoth could be taken alongside Concorde!
The idea behind such disparate products is the same, but they are different products and here lies the flaw in your logic. You are grouping technologies and deas together where they should not be. One would hardly compare a P900 with a Motorola StarTac for example, they are entirely diferent products.
Your logic stifles innovation because it cannot recognise innovation where it exists. By only viewing the first instance of a new technology your logic refuses to recognise where the real innovation comes from; not in ollowing on from existing technology to create a new technology, but in refining and improving that technology.
I'm surprised you are actually able to ind innovation in anything, your approach to it is so narrow that it is worth considering whether anything can actually ever be innovative to you.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-04-28 17:15 ]
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Posted: 2005-04-28 18:14:12
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I am impressed.
Well Done scotsboyuk
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Posted: 2005-04-28 18:35:36
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On 2005-04-28 13:45:03, Yazan24 wrote:
Surely a smaller jump is considered less innovative than a leap in technology, so upgrading from 1.3->2 MP isnt the same technological advance as putting a cam in a phone for the first time.
Isn't it? Why do you assume that it was difficult to integrate a camera into a mobile phone in the first place? It is far more difficult to actually integrate a camera that is as good as a dedicated product into a mobile phone. However, you would label than an 'improvement' not innovation.
Why do you believe that its only the innovation in technology that fuels a technological advance, it is also the concept. Once the concept has been fulfilled, it would make any improvements less groundbreaking.
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The memory stick duo isnt a new way of storing, its just a new casing, it incorporates the same existing technology, or most of the existing technology, and doesnt introduce many new things to the table, and is hence considered less or not innovative, since it doesnt introduce anything technologically ground breaking like the first removable memory modules.
Which were? Floppy disks? Cassettes? They use magnetic storage principles. A memorystick does the same job as a floppy disk, but it looks different. According to your logic that isn't innovation, just an improvement with a change in aethetics.
You know your being unreasonable by comparing floppy disks to smaller expanadable removable memory modules, theyre not in the same field, if you compared the first compact flash disk to the memory stick Id agree, but your pushing the comparison.
I meant by General, as in THESE WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS REMOVABLE MEMORY: -
COMPACTFLASH DISK, MEMORY STICKS, DUOS, SD, ETC.
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This is the same with increase in quality, nothing new is being introduced, existing technology is just being tweaked and perfected, and hence nothing technologically more advanced than the rest is being introduced, an existing technology is improved.
Yet you still don't seem to recognise the simple fact that this is all any technology is. It is all any technology ever can be. Any advance in technology is based upon exisitng technology, we simply improve and refine it.
You are correct, however the measure of innovation, is the size of the leap, the carriage to the automobile was an improvement, but it was a HUGE LEAP and cannot be compared to the jump between the current 3G phones and the size of the K600.
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An innovation can also be taking an existing GENERAL product that is innovative in its own field, implementing it in another field.
What exactly is a 'general' product'?
What you are trying to say I believe is that a product, which is innovative in a particular field can also be innovative in a field it isn't normally related to. In other words ... an exisitng technology, adapted and perhaps modified can be considered innovative even though it isn't necessarily a new product or technology anymore, in essence, what I have been saying all along.
We agree on that, but what we disagree on is the magnitude of innovation, refining a camera in a phone isnt as innvoative as putting it there in the first place.
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Camera, not as 3MP not as CMOS or CCD sensors, as cameras.
What utter rubbish! If you take that sort of nonsense to its logical conclusion you would have to consider a Victorian box camera as being the same as the latest Sony cybershot! A WWI Tigermoth could be taken alongside Concorde!
The idea behind such disparate products is the same, but they are different products and here lies the flaw in your logic. You are grouping technologies and deas together where they should not be. One would hardly compare a P900 with a Motorola StarTac for example, they are entirely diferent products.
Surely youll agree with me that the invention of the camera, is far more innovative than the increase between 6-7 Megapixels. That is the point I am trying to get across.
If you wanted to compare the first mobile phone and the P910, which would be more innovative, clearly the first mobile phone because there was nothing like it before it.
However there are smaller steps, as well but these are not as innovative as the larger leaps.
S4K1S, the difference between the monochrome screens and the 16 Color screen is the monoscreen was limited in functionality and the T68 allowed backgrounds themes and lots of new possibilities,
Why this is relevant? Because as we increase from 16-64-256 we havent increased the functionality, we can view pics like we could before, the only difference is the quality.
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Posted: 2005-04-28 18:53:50
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A very thin and knit-picking argument IMHO and one that, against the formidable Scotsboy, you are unlikely to win
Of course
are innovative, you can't survive in this industry without being so - to suggest otherwise is a nonsense. Ironically (with respect to this argument)
are arguably the
most innovative mobile manufacturer since their inception. If pioneering Bluetooth is not innovative, I don't know what is!
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Posted: 2005-04-28 18:59:50
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Quote:You know your being unreasonable by comparing floppy disks to smaller expanadable removable memory modules, theyre not in the same field, if you compared the first compact flash disk to the memory stick Id agree, but your pushing the comparison.
I meant by General, as in THESE WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS REMOVABLE MEMORY: -
COMPACTFLASH DISK, MEMORY STICKS, DUOS, SD, ETC.
You know floppy disks are removable media right...
like zipdisks ... like dat .. like usb memory .. like memory sticks .. like sds ...
Quote:S4K1S, the difference between the monochrome screens and the 16 Color screen is the monoscreen was limited in functionality and the T68 allowed backgrounds themes and lots of new possibilities,
ANYTHING you can do with a color _pixel_ display, you can also do with a monochrome _pixel_ display.
It is not the display that allows you to show backgrounds, it is the software.
Quote:Why this is relevant? Because as we increase from 16-64-256 we havent increased the functionality, we can view pics like we could before, the only difference is the quality.
What sort of pics can you watch on a 16 color display?
Can you really say with a straight face that you can watch pics on a 16 color display?
To say that bigger display and more colors don't increase the functionality is madness! Madness!
T68 Vs S700 ... have you compared those displays?
I say it again...
To say that bigger display and more colors don't increase the functionality is madness! Madness!
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Posted: 2005-04-28 19:10:07
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lemme tell u the fact
90% of people in esato supports SE
go to a nokia thread and argue with them which company is the best u will feel lame if u support SE
i m a big SE fan hate nokia by heart and i always prefer to buy SE
but itz not necessary dat nokia sux? na
nokia does have a very good cell market and these days the models which they r coming out they arnt facing any problems in this cell phone world market competition
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Posted: 2005-04-28 20:06:10
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I think we should all stop now, we all have correct and clear arguments which are the winning arguments and Yazan24 is being unreasonable.
He is setting his own boundaries, claiming that floppy disks arent removable storage (bollocks), claiming that innovation has to be something brand spanking new and invented (again, bollocks), and claiming Sony Ericsson arent innovative (even more bollocks
). Why say such things when you dont have the evidence to prove it?
How can you survive, as dave_uk rightly says, in a consumer world as a company and manufacturer if you aren't innovative?
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Posted: 2005-04-28 20:20:01
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Amen
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Posted: 2005-04-28 20:47:00
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Vanquish do your homework: -
Vanquish Says
Quote:He is setting his own boundaries, claiming that floppy disks arent removable storage (bollocks)
But Ive already said
Quote:You know your being unreasonable by comparing floppy disks to smaller expanadable removable memory modules, theyre not in the same field,
When you find a mobile device, PDA, Phone (not laptops) with a floppy disk, PM me. (That is what is meant by expandable removable memory, although a floppy disk is removable it doesnt expand the laptops memory beyond double its existing capacity like Memory sticks do.)
Vanquish Says
Quote:claiming that innovation has to be something brand spanking new and invented (again, bollocks),
But Ive already said
Quote:An innovation can also be taking an existing GENERAL product that is innovative in its own field, implementing it in another field.
Incase you didnt notice, existing doesnt mean brand spanking new.
Vanquish Says
Quote:claiming Sony Ericsson arent innovative (even more bollocks ).
But Ive already said
Quote:Sure they provide quality handsets, which have innovative aesthetics, but theyve never introduced a totally new innovative feature.
I said theyre innovative in aesthetics, and in other features, but theyve never introduced a totally new feature, thats what I said, learn to read.
Vanquish Says
Quote:Why say such things when you dont have the evidence to prove it?
The same could be said about you, and your post, whyd you say all those things, when the evidence provided is against you.
Dont say things when you dont have evidence to support your argument.
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Posted: 2005-04-28 23:15:55
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On 2005-04-28 23:15:55, Yazan24 wrote:
Vanquish do your homework: -
When you find a mobile device, PDA, Phone (not laptops) with a floppy disk, PM me. (That is what is meant by expandable removable memory, although a floppy disk is removable it doesnt expand the laptops memory beyond double its existing capacity like Memory sticks do.)
.
.
.
Dont say things when you dont have evidence to support your argument.
Yazan24 I won't go far away from SE ...
Lets look at the S ... Sony .. they make cameras right ?
The got a Series named
Mavica®
Guess What it uses for expandable removable memory
Quote:More choices, more power. The FD Mavica® MVC-FD200 is a 2 megapixel camera that gives you the option of recording your digital photos to a standard floppy disk or Memory Stick® Media1, making the concept of limitless capacity a reality at last. Your photos will be easy to store, easy to save and easy to share.
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-b[....]Cameras_CDMavicaDigitalCameras
[ This Message was edited by: S4k1s on 2005-04-28 22:37 ]
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Posted: 2005-04-28 23:36:54
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