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Neonw,
maybe some of threads from those who doubt the conspiracy theory have become silly in your mind. Its probably out of exasperation. Whenever anyone has tried to rationally argue this, the believers out there respond with allegations of brain washing etc.
Having been heavily involved in first thread on this, some months ago, I am dissapointed to see it all rehashed now. I am not going to repeat all of the well argued points that have previously mentioned by myself and others in this and previous threads, but I would say that no one has ever come up with convincing argument as to why the US would do this.
So why?
For oil? Then why invade Afghanistan that has no oil?
Because they hate muslims? Then why fight on the muslim side in the Balkans?
To increase political/military presence in the area? Possibly, but they could have done this much more easily, e.g. plant more convincing WMD evidence in Iraq. Invade and Occupy. All without 9/11 and the Afghan campaign.
So why?
This conspiracy theory has gained momentum as more and more people are angered by US foreign policy, not because it has any truth.
I and many others have looked at all facts, including the conspiracy sites and counter-sites and come up with the reasonable conclusion. It looks like a duck, walks like duck, and talks like a duck. Guess what? Yes, its a duck. We're not brainwashed, we just not looking to find things that aren't there.
The fact that you believe these stories says a lot more about your prejudices than it does ours.
Whilst debating ideas like this is good mental exercise and quite fun, theories like these are similar to holocaust denial - based on hatred and actually quite dangerous in the minds of the gullible.
So my final (ever) statement to all those who believe this crap - think back to just before 9/11. Try to put your mind in Bush/CIA/Whoever. You want to grab the oil/kill all muslims/take over the middle east/whatever.
How would you do it? Recruit 100s of people into a risky conspiracy that will kill thousands of your own citizens? If you really think that happened then your stupid. Sorry but you are.
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Posted: 2005-01-27 14:12:29
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duncan, aren't you curious as to why the radar record of flight 77 is CLASSIFIED? Aren't you curious why there are no 'muslim' names on the passenger manifest (despite the alleged "hijackers" all being muslim and mostly Saudi). Aren't you curious as to how so many people present at a plane crash should mistake it for a truck bomb? Or where all the wreckage went (remember the damage wasn't so severe to stop about 90% of the bodies being positively identified). All this doesn't make you wonder?
This message was posted from a T68i
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Posted: 2005-01-27 14:49:48
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Is it actually still classified, or does it just say that on some websites?
Richard Reid aka "The Shoebomber". Is that a 'muslim' name?
Eye Witness testimony is quite unreliable, but there many witnesses who actually saw the plane crash into the pentagon not truck bomb. But hang on, I thought it was a missile? Either way they were wrong.
Regarding the wreckage - i don't know. I am not expert in plane crash analysis and neither are you.
Yes - it does make me think. Thats why I investigated. My conclusion was that it was all a bunch of crap, propagated by people with their own agenda, that finds fertile ground in the minds of the gullible.
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Posted: 2005-01-27 16:57:10
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as for arab name are you assuming that only arabs could have done this.
also why would they use there real names there family will have been paid for what they did so i somehow doubt they would want to use a real name as i would guess the americans would be straight into there familys bank accounts freezing all assets or worst still out looking for the familys not really a smart move.
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Posted: 2005-01-27 18:01:09
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And what is an "arab" name? I take offense at certain people calling others who have looked objectively at the situation, and decided to ignore the "conspiracy" theory, "stupid". As I have said before the perfect conspiracy is one that can be niether proved nor disproved. Maybe this is a "perfect" conspiracy, I'm not sure, but dont go calling people stupid just because they have a different viewpoint.
I personally believe the attacks were an amazing piece of planning and execution by someone the Americans call a "terrorist". Well, all I can say is his planning is far better than most of the American military! Who killed more British soldiers in the first Gulf war? Americans or Iraqis??
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Posted: 2005-01-27 19:31:28
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well said bammers. as for farinheit 9/11 its a good film however its the old thing of why let the truth get in the way of a good story.
its got many inaccuraces in it, and most are listed in the first 9/11 thread which axxxr started last year.
thats not to say people shouldnt watch it as if youve never seen it before it is a good film,one you can draw your own individual conclusions from.
you can only know the full make up your mind if you see the whole picture.
as for people calling people stupid i hoped the thread wouldnt go that way but if thats your best defence of your opinions then so be it
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Posted: 2005-01-27 19:36:31
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Obviously articulate people are needed to argue this one. I for one thought the film f 9/11 was amusing for the Bush clips. Shows what he is like, quite similar to a certain J Prescott ir not too bright!!
As for the conspiracy theorists, if you really want to you could see a conspiracy in everything. Maybe its inbuilt into the human psyche to be wary and distrustful of everything, especially governments, when they feel they have no control or something so horrific happens. What I mean is maybe subconsciously we're programmed to think ""how could "their" government allow such a thing to happen, "we are a super power" surely they must be involved!""?? Just a thought?!
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Posted: 2005-01-27 19:47:26
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@duncan
extremely well put
@all
If you like a bit of Fahrenheit 9/11, you may also be interested in the book that explains how Michael Moore really made the film. It's called "Michael Moore is a Big Fat Stupid White Man", by David T. Hardy and Jason Clarke - highly recommended reading, especially for the theorists...
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Posted: 2005-01-27 22:35:39
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On 2005-01-27 14:12:29, duncanb99 wrote:
Having been heavily involved in first thread on this, some months ago, I am dissapointed to see it all rehashed now. I am not going to repeat all of the well argued points that have previously mentioned by myself and others in this and previous threads, but I would say that no one has ever come up with convincing argument as to why the US would do this.
So why?
For oil? Then why invade Afghanistan that has no oil?
Well for a start your even wrong about your first question,Afganistan has a vast source of untapped oil and gas supplies aswell as minerals and gemstones and the u.s knew that years ago,but could;nt find a good enough excuse to invade the country until 9/11.
Quote: duncanb99 wrote: Because they hate muslims? Then why fight on the muslim side in the Balkans?
The u.s only sides with the muslim nations when its suits its purpose or when they have something to gain i.e: Political influence or financial gain.With the example of Iraq in the first gulf war they sided with many muslim nations in order to liberate kuwait..In fact the vast majority of the muslim world sees the americans as muslim oppressors due to thier support of the Israeli's.
Quote:duncanb99 wrote:So why?
This conspiracy theory has gained momentum as more and more people are angered by US foreign policy, not because it has any truth.
I and many others have looked at all facts, including the conspiracy sites and counter-sites and come up with the reasonable conclusion. It looks like a duck, walks like duck, and talks like a duck. Guess what? Yes, its a duck. We're not brainwashed, we just not looking to find things that aren't there.
I will tell you why this conspiracy has gained momentum..it has done so because of america's illegle war in iraq: America's stance in the Israeli/Palestinian situation: America's caught lieing in the U.N general assembly to legitimise the war in IraqAmerica.They lie and liers have much more to hide.
Quote:duncanb99 wrote:The fact that you believe these stories says a lot more about your prejudices than it does ours.
Wrong again..We believe these stories because we don't trust then american administration.Again We don't trust in a country that lies..You are welcome to live the spoonfed media tosh if you like.But the reality is much more different.
Quote:duncanb99 wrote:Whilst debating ideas like this is good mental exercise and quite fun, theories like these are similar to holocaust denial - based on hatred and actually quite dangerous in the minds of the gullible.
And wrong again: We don't dream up these conspiracy theories because we want to kill time or as you say mental excercise.. your obviously just in constant denial that such conspiracys do exsist...Looks like you are very much in denial of the truth trying to compare the Holocaust to these conspiracys theories!...minds of the gullible are the ones who accept everything they see in the media as the truth.
Quote:duncanb99 wrote:So my final (ever) statement to all those who believe this crap - think back to just before 9/11. Try to put your mind in Bush/CIA/Whoever. You want to grab the oil/kill all muslims/take over the middle east/whatever.
How would you do it? Recruit 100s of people into a risky conspiracy that will kill thousands of your own citizens? If you really think that happened then your stupid. Sorry but you are.
Right and Wrong: Actually that is the intention of the the U.S,to Grab the Oil,Support the oppression of muslims in palestine as they are doing by giving total support to the israeli;s and by killing hundreds of thousands of muslims in Afganistan and Iraq.and there intention is complete control of the middle east which they are succeeding at.
For a start we would'nt do such a thing ,because we are not genocidal maniacs like the the u.s administration..Yes we do really think on 9/11 something happened and the u.s had a lot to do with it..and it looks like fish and swims like a fish and stinks like a rotten fish!
I rest my case!
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WHITEHOUSE
[ This Message was edited by: axxxr on 2005-01-27 23:34 ]
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Posted: 2005-01-27 23:47:46
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Well said ax! duncan, if the radar track of flight 77 isn't classified produce a copy. Go on... I know you care about the truth so you'll want to examine the evidence.
This message was posted from a T68i
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Posted: 2005-01-28 00:03:22
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