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You are a interesting young chap to say the least. I hope to see you soon on MSN. You know the world and the world is yours (not meant to offend you buddy).How much I wish to be your age ;-) Greetings from a sunny South Africa. Mario
This message was posted from a Nokia 7650
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Posted: 2005-05-14 07:17:17
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@mario
I am recently returned from a tour of South Africa, I am already planning my return to your wonderful land.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-05-14 07:24 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-14 08:23:54
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On 2005-05-13 16:47:23, scotsboyuk wrote:
Here is what the CEO of Swisscom Mobile said regarding EDGE, "EDGE makes it possible for us to provide a high-quality mobile broadband network to rural regions of the country as well," explains Carsten Schloter, CEO of Swisscom Mobile. However, we remain committed to UMTS as the technology of the future, and will continue to expand our UMTS network." The full article can be found
here.
In other words EDGE is being viewed by the network in the manner I outlined in my earlier post, a stop gap measure to allow rural customers fast data speeds that will hopefully increase data revenue in areas WCDMA is still to reach.
1st my apologies if my quote editing is wrong.
This isnt and shouldn't be considered a stop gap. Their implementing EDGE for the same reason I've posted as a QoS option, and wider presence of data service options. Your post mentions that the telco chose EDGE because the very nature of WCDMA cannot reach rural areas without the added cost of repeaters & their leases for those locations. Then the cost of licensing... yes they may already have 3G license but for what spectrum & how many towers per area - by spectrum I mean by purchase spectrum not 3G 2100mhz bandwidth, but the actual purchase band 30Mhz or whathaveyou. I wish I could explain it better but I cant. Only example is in Canada Rogers Wireless along with every other carrier purchased new licenses for the next year, even though GPRS & EDGE operates at 850/1900Mhz here their actual purchased license mentions 20/30Mhz for certain areas of the country; this is what I'm refering too.
Besides in other European country's where EDGE is trialed, why is it trialed if 3G is so successful & EDGE isnt wanted? For stop gap reasons? Or until more leases for more umts towers could be purchased. EDGE has its place, to co-exist with wcdma; currently as QoS implemention, video calls or live video voicemail - a feature that will soon be widespread - wont work with gprs data rates, this is where EDGE would help.
btw lovely points of views this thread has produced. I hope no more insults arise as we're all more mature.
cheers.
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Posted: 2005-05-14 11:25:37
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@scotsboyuk
Yes, quite.
is selling EDGE/WLAN data cards for european market (900,1800 + 1900 for USroaming). And without 3G support. Check
website if u like. Just to prove u wrong that in fact
does sell EDGE products intended for european market. Now, why they dont sell phones, I dont know. At the same time, it is interesting to note Nokia is not having data cards anymore. EDGE is coming in laptops as a de facto technology (e.g sony vaio, so far targetttedfor US market), along with eg BT, WLAN that must be the reason.
Edit: and yes, having EDGE-only data cards wouldnt make sense, but my post referred to EDGE products for Europe (Not having WLAN in a datacard wouldnt make any sense, obviously)
[ This Message was edited by: Super G on 2005-05-14 11:06 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-14 11:59:49
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So I was slightly wrong about nokia, although they have quite a few EDGE phones in the higher segment many of them are very recent. But other companies seem to use edge less. I did a quick search on GSMarena in the phone finder. Required the phone to have edge, but left everything else as optional so the result included some cancelled phones and missed the S710 so the search wasn't totaly acurate but is a good example non the less. I found: 26 nokias, 13 motorolas,mostly not yet released, 3 Samsung, 1 siemens, 1 palmone, 1alcatel and 1 SE the Z500. Now when SE made the S710 they took out the FM radio and added an EDGE chip. Now would you like that that to happen with the K700? The S700 at least had MSD so you could use it as a MP3 player but with the K700 you'd rely more on listening to the radio. I suppose they could have still done it and also a K510 too. Maybe if people interested would send an email daily to SE to tell them to make a K710, K760, K510, K310 maybe we could convince them
Although for me I think I'll just keep the radio. Also being in a country where I doubt people even use GPRS much and we're going to just jump to 3G.
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Posted: 2005-05-14 15:09:43
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BTW SE has announced a PC Card GC95 (
http://www.sonyericsson.com/s[....]5_1&zone=pp&lm=pp5_1&pid=10237 )
which is UMTS/EDGE/GPRS quadriband! Wow
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On 2005-05-14 11:59:49, Super G wrote:
@scotsboyuk
Yes, quite.
is selling EDGE/WLAN data cards for european market (900,1800 + 1900 for USroaming). And without 3G support. Check
website if u like. Just to prove u wrong that in fact
does sell EDGE products intended for european market. Now, why they dont sell phones, I dont know. At the same time, it is interesting to note Nokia is not having data cards anymore. EDGE is coming in laptops as a de facto technology (e.g sony vaio, so far targetttedfor US market), along with eg BT, WLAN that must be the reason.
Edit: and yes, having EDGE-only data cards wouldnt make sense, but my post referred to EDGE products for Europe (Not having WLAN in a datacard wouldnt make any sense, obviously)
[ This Message was edited by: Super G on 2005-05-14 11:06 ]
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Posted: 2005-05-14 16:36:50
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On 2005-05-14 11:25:37, Prom1 wrote:
This isnt and shouldn't be considered a stop gap. Their implementing EDGE for the same reason I've posted as a QoS option, and wider presence of data service options. Your post mentions that the telco chose EDGE because the very nature of WCDMA cannot reach rural areas without the added cost of repeaters & their leases for those locations. Then the cost of licensing... yes they may already have 3G license but for what spectrum & how many towers per area - by spectrum I mean by purchase spectrum not 3G 2100mhz bandwidth, but the actual purchase band 30Mhz or whathaveyou.
The rest of that quote (quite a short one so readily readable) explains that Swisscom's UMTS service currently covers approximately 90% of the Swiss population. The quote also mentions that Swisscom are comitted to UMTS as the future.
It seems entirely sensible to me that to expand their fast data covereage into areas where their UMTS service hasn't reached yet they should use EDGE. I have stated this previously and I wish that more European networks would follow suit.
Having said that EDGE is not a long term option for them. Continuing with the Swisscom example they are committed to UMTS, not EDGE, not GPRS, but UMTS; the same is true for all the major European networks. Hence EDGE is a stop-gap measure, which some networks have sensibly utilised to fill the void until they can create universal 3G covereage.
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I wish I could explain it better but I cant. Only example is in Canada Rogers Wireless along with every other carrier purchased new licenses for the next year, even though GPRS & EDGE operates at 850/1900Mhz here their actual purchased license mentions 20/30Mhz for certain areas of the country; this is what I'm refering too.
I could be wrong, but aren't you referring to the amount of bandwidth purchased as opposed to the actual frequency?
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Besides in other European country's where EDGE is trialed, why is it trialed if 3G is so successful & EDGE isnt wanted? For stop gap reasons? Or until more leases for more umts towers could be purchased.
Licences for towers isn't really the issue in Europe since the UMTS networks have already purchased their licences. The various EU governments (and non-EU governments) then mandated certain levels of covereage the networks had to achieve by certain dates.
Quite why people keep saying UMTS is 'so succcessful' I'm not sure. 3G is doing well at the moment, with a sharp rise in uptake last year and a bigger rise expectex this year. 2.5G will still be the dominant technology used for a few years yet at least. It takes time to persuade (or force) everyone to switch to 3G.
At the moment the networks are primarily concerned with expanding their covereage of urban areas where the bulf of the population is concentrated. This makes perfect sense from an economic standpoint of course, but it obviously doesn't do much for rural customers. Some networks (quite sensibly in my opinion) might consider utilising EDGE as a stop-gap measure for the enxt few years to shore up their rural covereage until their UMTS networks can catch up, in geographic terms, with their population covereage.
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EDGE has its place, to co-exist with wcdma; currently as QoS implemention, video calls or live video voicemail - a feature that will soon be widespread - wont work with gprs data rates, this is where EDGE would help.
EDGE has its place in the here and now, it has no viable long term future in Europe. The networks are determined to create a single standard e.g. UMTS that customers will use for all their communication needs e.g. calls, data, etc. EDGE should have been implemented in Europe a few years ago, but of course the reason is politics on the part of the networks. If they already had a service offerring fast data then it is all the harder to persudae people of the need for UMTS.
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btw lovely points of views this thread has produced. I hope no more insults arise as we're all more mature.
I rather hope they shall, it's what makes this sort of thread interesting.
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Posted: 2005-05-14 17:26:56
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On 2005-05-14 11:59:49, Super G wrote:
@scotsboyuk
Yes, quite.
is selling EDGE/WLAN data cards for european market (900,1800 + 1900 for USroaming). And without 3G support. Check
website if u like. Just to prove u wrong that in fact
does sell EDGE products intended for european market.
Ah so pettiness is the name of the game! Well perhaps you should keep up with the thread old boy, since I was speaking of handsets, but no matter. You may also be interested to learn that those products aren't sold in every European country.
The fact still remains that SE could be selling a million EDGE enabled products, but they would still be coasters in much of Europe earning them about as much as benefits cheat with a bad back.
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Now, why they dont sell phones, I dont know.
Because they would be useless to most of their customers and make them very little money. That was an easy one!
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At the same time, it is interesting to note Nokia is not having data cards anymore. EDGE is coming in laptops as a de facto technology (e.g sony vaio, so far targetttedfor US market), along with eg BT, WLAN that must be the reason.
Possibly or perhaps there could be that little known factor of other companys being more successful in an market segment? Perhaps PC cards just aren't economically viable for Nokia? With the networks releasing PC cards themselves it puts more strain on the manufacturers in trying to compete.
Integrated Wi-Fi is certainly endangering the future of Wi-Fi cards just as integrated Bluetooth is doing the same with Bluetooth dongles, but there will still be a market for GPRS/EDGE.UMTS PC cards for some time to come.
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Edit: and yes, having EDGE-only data cards wouldnt make sense, but my post referred to EDGE products for Europe (Not having WLAN in a datacard wouldnt make any sense, obviously)
One wonders why you bothered mentioning it all then. EDGE products are never going to be major sellers in Europe for anyone. If EDGE were any great selling point I imagine that we would have seen a plethora of EDGE enabled products from all the major manufacturers by now. Instead what we see are the manufacturers releasing ever more UMTS enabled products.
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Posted: 2005-05-14 17:43:58
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One point which no one mentioned is : UMTS needs about twice as many repeater towers compared to GSM. Now in urban areas isn't a big deal to erect towers all over the place, but in rural a poses some problems.Here in South Africa the cell company can't get a so called 'enviormental licence' in some places. Eventually they will sort things out but it may add another year or so till the intended area is covert.Now I grew up in Germany and I can assure you the cell companies will battle even worse there to erect tonyers all over the landscape ! On the other hand WIMAX is really going to get implemented - and please if you are technicaly minded please look on the net to see how elegantly WIMAX solves many problems UMTS still battles with ! Not only less connection overheads but the ping times are around 20% less then umts. And at the bandwith WIMAX operates you could make a HD-duplex videocall ! Also because the frq. is not regulated yet no licence is needed! (same as wifi)
This message was posted from a Nokia 7650
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Posted: 2005-05-15 05:07:22
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@mario
The problem with Wi-Max of course, is that it requires a an infrastructure to be built from scratch as well as convincing people to use it. I don't think Wi-Max will ever be a serious contender in the mobile phone market with WCDMA and CDMA 2000 set to dominate in the near future.
Wi-Max does have a potentially important role to play though, but how long that will take to be realised is another matter entirely.
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Posted: 2005-05-15 05:12:16
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