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< Esato Forum Index > General discussions > Non mobile discussion > Raf Flight Lt jailed for speaking the truth Bookmark topic

Thanks, Londinium!
Oh "duh..."... Nearly got me started again... But that's living in the West of Ireland... You realise a mobile phone forum is more interesting than the entire corporate Irish media landscape... (I happen to be neither
Irish, nor American, nor British, nor Muslim, nor christian, nor , nor, nor...- see, there is so much we are NOT, so how the hoot can being a patriot for accidentally being born in country x,y or z be so... AND here I lost myself
.... (Well, I AM at work as we "speak"... HAVE A GOOD ONE!............................
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Posted: 2006-04-23 16:56:18
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the only chance for the us to change its very bad judgement of the whole world lies in the hand of the american nation. nice to see, that some of them finished to live with eyes wide closed and start to realise, that the western times are over ( first shoot then ask ).
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Posted: 2006-04-23 18:54:42
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When i saw this on the news a few weeks back I think it was I was appauled at being brittish, the guy stands up for what he believes in and I think thats very important these days. How many soliders world wide go to was for no reason? Let alone one they achually believe in. I think that this man should be rewarded, but nt punnished for what he did (i know this would f**k up the forces etc but I think its important if your going to war to beleive in what your fighting for, if you dont then why bother fighting?)?
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Posted: 2006-04-24 01:34:31
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Quote:
On 2006-04-22 18:48:22, axxxr wrote:
Seems like more and more military personal are standing up against U.S aggression in Iraq,RAF Flight Lt. Malcolm Kendall-Smith,who said "U.S. actions in Iraq were on par with those of Nazi Germany".(what i've said all along).

He challenged the legality of the war in Iraq, and he was sentenced to eight months in prison and dismissed from the service...I salute his courage and bravery for speaking out!

Flight Lt. Malcolm Kendall-Smith has also said that "I have evidence that the Americans were on a par with Nazi Germany with its actions in the Persian Gulf,".

He's been punished for speaking the TRUTH and standing up for what he and many of us know is right.

The Pentagon says more than 5,500 servicemen have deserted since the war started in Iraq.

CNN Article

Flight Lt. Malcolm Kendall-Smith





If one manages to get past the usual rhetoric of these things one will find that this chap wasn't punished for opposing the war, but rather for disobeying orders. The chap in question is perfectly entitled to hold whatever view he likes, whether that be the Iraq war is illegal or whether it be the moon is made of cheese. However, if one joins the armed forces one is expected to carry out orders, that is how the armed forces operate.

The officer had served in Iraq previously and it was last year that he refused to return. At that time British forces were under U.N. mandate to operate in Iraq and also at the invitation of the Iraqi government. Whether the original invasion was illegal or not is therefore not the issue here since there now exists a legal framework for British troops to be deployed there. It would arguably have made more sense for the officer to refuse any participation in the original invasion.

Comparing the U.S. occupation of Iraq to Nazi Germany deserves to be treated with contempt. The Nazi occupation of Europe was barbaric in the extreme and whilst the Americans are not perfect and there have been some awful things happening in Iraq I can assure you that the Nazis were much much worse.

The current insurrection in Iraq would probably have been put down with overwhelming brutality by the Nazis. When Reinhard Heydrich was assassinated in 1942 the Nazis killed over a thousand people in response. All males over the age of 16 in the village of Lidice were murdered and the women and children sent to concentration camps. Some children who 'looked German' were later sent to German orphanges. The village was sytematically detstroyed and all traces of it removed even as far as taking it off maps. Three thousand Jews were sent to the concentration camps. A further five hundred Jews were arrested in Berlin with one hundred and fifty two being murdered as a reprisal.

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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-04-24 01:22 ]
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Posted: 2006-04-24 01:52:34
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First time I agree with Scots, If he was in the US army there has to be some sort of conduct code document he had to sign and agree to be a slave and follow orders regardless of what they are...
So he got what he got for violating that order... and maybe punished accordingly.

But on the other side, before he even knew what he was getting into, he to taught that he was doing the right thing, and maybe only until he saw what was happening in Iraq and being there in person did his he wake up and realise what he and the us were doing was wrong!

Its like an eppisode of JAG
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Posted: 2006-04-24 09:10:33
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... chained to the dream they got you searchin' for...

well hell, I too love to say, "well you fools, that's war then, innit... fool, don't deserve the right to complain... stop whinging and go on killing, go, kill for us and yo' momma...!" But guys, doesn't the debate thus far show one point if nothing else: we are outraged and amend "but he should've known"; and we know recruiters target badly informed, undereducated youths (not just in usa and uk... and that's why Germany even under red/green government wouldn't stop the draft - it's openly discussed in military policy-making circles that draft is good "because more smart personnel caught that way", but bad "because too many critically thinking people in military with draft"... So, where was I... ? Oh yeah, If we can argue about that guy here, feel sorry for the guy, yet give him some blame, yet feel outraged by our regimes punishing guys like him, etcetcetc, HOW THE F#CK can we judge young men or women in iran, iraq, venezuela, northern ireland or bumf#ck texas... REALLY, Impeach the thugs, all of them, then don't vote for some years, impeach them all over again, maybe...maybe then... Or as fight club chuck palahniuk once stated
let the us/uk go really, really fascist, vote for guys like bush'n cheney, get it done and over with, and then... then, in a few decades, and a billion deaths later something good might come out of all this shit...
Righteeyo... Sorry that's me on a Sunday, in the west of ireland, where the only meaningful conversation with a "local" was with my taxman, and O2 shops sell I-pods but no phone better than a k300, and politicians, ALL politicians sold their souls, their jobs and their P.I.N.'s to the us-version of democracy... and ,...(oh just look at esato's supposed ireland-thread, you'll get it then!)
Thanks for letting me let off...
Maggflodd
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Posted: 2006-04-30 17:39:05
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Kate Hudson, chairwoman of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, said: \"Many people believe the war in Iraq was an illegal war and therefore we would consider he was quite within his rights and it was indeed commendable he believed it was right to stand up to what he considered to be an illegal instruction to engage in an illegal war. We have full sympathy for him and he has our full support. We consider it to be a commendable and moral act.\"

Lindsey German, convener for the Stop the War Coalition, said: \"The majority of public opinion agree this war was not based on international law.\"

Flight Lt. Malcolm Kendall-Smith (quote)

\"I have been convicted and sentenced, a very distressing experience. But I still believe I was right to make the stand that I did and refuse to follow orders to deploy to Iraq - orders I believe were illegal. I am resigned to what may happen to me in the next few months. I shall remain resilient and true to my beliefs which, I believe, are shared by so many others.\"
\"Iraq was the only reason I could not follow the order to deploy. As a commissioned officer, I am required to consider every order given to me. Further, I am required to consider the legality of such an order not only as to its effect on domestic but also international law. I was subjected, as was the entire population, to propaganda depicting force against Iraq to be lawful. I have studied in very great depth the various commentaries and briefing notes, including one prepared by the Attorney General, and in particular the main note to the PM dated 7 March 2003. I have satisfied myself that the actions of the armed forces with the deployment of troops were an illegal act - as indeed was the conflict. To comply with an order that I believe unlawful places me in breach of domestic and international law, something I am not prepared to do.\" \"The invasion and occupation of Iraq is a campaign of imperial military conquest and falls into the category of criminal acts. I would have had criminal responsibility vicariously if I had gone to Iraq. I still have two great loves in life - medicine and the RAF. To take the decision that I did caused great sadness, but I had no other choice.\"

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Posted: 2006-05-02 21:07:05
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Why not protest when the war started? That was when there was the strongest argument for it being illegal. When the Captain was ordered to go back there was a U.N. mandate for British troops to be there as well as the authority of the Iraqi government.
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Posted: 2006-05-02 21:12:33
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