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Sorry…I was too busy reading the guardian…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1766215,00.html
the first article above will be a sad blow for especially those who think the western media is any good…oh, on the previous page did I read somewhere, that fox was bad and the BBC ok…well looks like there all bad…not good…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1773121,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1768863,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1758210,00.html
Why don’t they leave Vannunu alone? Must have some more things he hasn’t told the world…not good…
Apartheid government….who? Israel, no impossible...oh yes, its true…its damm true…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1704895,00.html
The article was from here…
http://www.aqsa.org.uk/news_latest.aspx?sm2=2
mmm...wasn't it the western media, who on September the 11th, showed Palestinian kids celebrating...saying they were celebrating due to the acts that occurred on that day...then when the source of the tape was leaked, under pressure and no leg to stand on, they conceded the tape was very old, and taken under a completely different situation...far prior to September the 11th...
It’s clear to a blind man, that the Israeli government is responsible for far more and worse crimes, than any Palestinian...
Israeli tanks storm a village, arrest every male, from 15-60, lock them up, torture them, then release them when their no longer a threat, or when there’s no more room! but these men are not terrorists oppressing a people...their soldiers, they are acting in self-defense...haven't beaten enough Palestinians, so they go to another village, when a young boy the age of 5, is brave enough to show his disgust, by pelting a stone, which is reflected off, a multi-million pound tank, he's a terrorist, the little thing, why, how dare he throw a stone at the only democracy in the middle-east, how dare he...
A young boy is labeled a terrorist because he threw a stone at a tank, with no effect - or is he labeled a terrorist because he is a Palestinian? Is he labeled a terrorist because he is a Muslim? surely, Israeli soldiers, armed to the teeth with the latest machine guns/tanks/bullet proof vests sponsored by the worlds only super-power, surely, how terrified can they be of a child, the age of 5, with a stone in his hand...either that kid must have done alot over his long life prior to this and was a terrorist before this incident or the western media, is totally out of their mind...well...they can fool the ordinary British and American...so maybe its just these western populations who have no common sense...or maybe, so thoroughly have they been brainwashed...they know...an Israeli is innocent even if proven guilty...but a Palestinian, whether he be 5 or 100 in age, he is a terrorist, why, because he is opposing a tyrannical regime, why, because he wants justice, why, because he doesn’t want his brothers and fathers taken away everyday, tortured, hurt...he doesn’t mind eating the salt and olives he is eating for breakfast, lunch and dinner...he just wants justice...and if maybe, pelting a stone, deters these cowards hiding in tanks for 1 second, well why not…
In my eyes, a 5 yr old Palestinian child, who is brave enough to throw a pebble at a tank, is far more of a soldier, than a man, armed to the teeth, sitting in a tank and bulldozing houses...
either, when you get older you will see, or your children will see, the day when Palestine has been liberated, with just rulers, and the people living in peace, worshipping the one god, where all people of all faiths will be allowed to worship in their places of worship, how it once use to be, when Muslims ruled over that blessed land for the 1200 yrs prior to the 20th century...whether this transition takes place via a war, or a few wise words remains to be seen...but it will happen, take my word, I just pray, that I am alive to witness this day…
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Posted: 2006-05-12 17:49:08
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Very well said.
Do I need to remind people of this website again?
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
_________________
P.E.A.C.E (Proper Education Always Corrects Errors)
www.davidicke.com
www.infowars.com
www.prisonplanet.com
www.ifamericansknew.org/[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2006-05-12 16:58 ]
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Posted: 2006-05-12 17:55:17
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Bear in mind the Guardian is far from perfect and has it's biases and agendas too...
No source is 100% perfect, not the BBC, Fox, Guardian, Times, anyone. Though some are worse than others!
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Posted: 2006-05-12 18:29:02
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On 2006-05-12 17:49:08, dealer3 wrote:
Sorry…I was too busy reading the guardian…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1766215,00.html
the first article above will be a sad blow for especially those who think the western media is any good…oh, on the previous page did I read somewhere, that fox was bad and the BBC ok…well looks like there all bad…not good…
So it is a blow for every single Western media outlet because one aspect of one media outlet's coverage has been criticised?
On your second point, you clearly haven't been reading much in this thread since it has been said that no media outlet is completely unbiased.
In addition the BBC themselves reported on this story. You can see the BBC Governors' page on the matter
here.
Interestingly enough, for someone who is pointing out flaws in the Western media, you are relying on the Western media to report on those flaws. It's a good thing in my book when the media reports on its own flaws.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1773121,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1768863,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1758210,00.html
All from the one source, how interesting ...
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1704895,00.html
Oh look, another Guardian story! I wonder if Britain has any other newspapers?
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mmm...wasn't it the western media, who on September the 11th, showed Palestinian kids celebrating...saying they were celebrating due to the acts that occurred on that day...then when the source of the tape was leaked, under pressure and no leg to stand on, they conceded the tape was very old, and taken under a completely different situation...far prior to September the 11th...
You mean the Western media you have just been using? The last time I checked the Guardian was a British newspaper. Apparently you pick and choose when the Western media is bad.
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It’s clear to a blind man, that the Israeli government is responsible for far more and worse crimes, than any Palestinian...
It's clear to an objective man that you couldn't be more blinkered if you were wearing a blindfold and standing in a dark room.
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Israeli tanks storm a village, arrest every male, from 15-60, lock them up, torture them, then release them when their no longer a threat, or when there’s no more room! but these men are not terrorists oppressing a people...their soldiers, they are acting in self-defense...haven't beaten enough Palestinians, so they go to another village, when a young boy the age of 5, is brave enough to show his disgust, by pelting a stone, which is reflected off, a multi-million pound tank, he's a terrorist, the little thing, why, how dare he throw a stone at the only democracy in the middle-east, how dare he...
A young boy is labeled a terrorist because he threw a stone at a tank, with no effect - or is he labeled a terrorist because he is a Palestinian? Is he labeled a terrorist because he is a Muslim? surely, Israeli soldiers, armed to the teeth with the latest machine guns/tanks/bullet proof vests sponsored by the worlds only super-power, surely, how terrified can they be of a child, the age of 5, with a stone in his hand...either that kid must have done alot over his long life prior to this and was a terrorist before this incident or the western media, is totally out of their mind...well...they can fool the ordinary British and American...so maybe its just these western populations who have no common sense...or maybe, so thoroughly have they been brainwashed...they know...an Israeli is innocent even if proven guilty...but a Palestinian, whether he be 5 or 100 in age, he is a terrorist, why, because he is opposing a tyrannical regime, why, because he wants justice, why, because he doesn’t want his brothers and fathers taken away everyday, tortured, hurt...he doesn’t mind eating the salt and olives he is eating for breakfast, lunch and dinner...he just wants justice...and if maybe, pelting a stone, deters these cowards hiding in tanks for 1 second, well why not…
In my eyes, a 5 yr old Palestinian child, who is brave enough to throw a pebble at a tank, is far more of a soldier, than a man, armed to the teeth, sitting in a tank and bulldozing houses...
either, when you get older you will see, or your children will see, the day when Palestine has been liberated, with just rulers, and the people living in peace, worshipping the one god, where all people of all faiths will be allowed to worship in their places of worship, how it once use to be, when Muslims ruled over that blessed land for the 1200 yrs prior to the 20th century...whether this transition takes place via a war, or a few wise words remains to be seen...but it will happen, take my word, I just pray, that I am alive to witness this day…
Translation for the objectively minded:
I choose to see what I want to see. It doesn't matter to me that both sides are killing one another and that neither side has any real claim to the moral high ground, I will simply see the situation from one angle and ignore anything that conflicts with my view of the situation.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-05-12 17:54 ]
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Posted: 2006-05-12 18:48:47
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I think we tend to choose the media that tells the truth that WE want to hear.
In other words, we choose to listen to radio stations, watch news channels and read the newspapers that best match our own views, opinions and biases. Any other sources then are automatically rubbish or biased as they don't fit our view of the world.
imho to be truely unbiased and see all sides or a situation, argument or scenario we need to get our news and info from various different sources before making our minds up.
Anyway, I'm dragging this way off topic (as these discussions nearly always do
)
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Posted: 2006-05-12 19:07:53
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@Sam
That's a good point and I think it is something more people should do. If you are interested in an issue then you should look at it from different angles; watch the BBC's report on it, watch ITN's, watch Al Jazeera's; read the Guardian's views, the Telegraph's, the New York Times', etc. A wider perspective on the issue will help to give a better picture of what is actually going on.
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Posted: 2006-05-12 19:12:38
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@ Scots
Can you at least admit that the Israeli army might have a slightly unfair advantage over the Palestinian militia?
Maybe dealer_3 is being one sided, but why shouldn't he be when people in the west don't get a fair representation of what is happening over there.
It's easy to get frustrated and emotional when there's so much injustice going on that people don't realise what is happening. When was the last time the Israeli army REALLY got a bad report on the news. Not just a quick mention here and there, but a real negative report. It hasn't. Granted there have been documentaries out and about, but nothing from a big news outlet.
You MUST see/hear/read the wordings used when anything is reported from that region. Quite often the Palestinian militia is described as the terrorists (which, when they blow up a bus full of civilians the are). But whenever the Israeli army kill civilians, it's put across to the viewer like it was just an accident or they were just doing their job. Please, you of all people must have noticed this?
The Palestinian militia have commited atrocities, as we all know, I just wish the atrocities commited by the Israeli army were reported the same way.
To sum up, if you hear something enough times, from an early age and if you are unobjective and weak minded then you will start beleiving these things. This goes for middleastern and western propoganda.
_________________
P.E.A.C.E (Proper Education Always Corrects Errors)
www.davidicke.com
www.infowars.com
www.prisonplanet.com
www.ifamericansknew.org/[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2006-05-12 18:19 ]
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Posted: 2006-05-12 19:16:39
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On 2006-05-12 19:16:39, soulframe wrote:
@ Scots
Can you at least admit that the Israeli army might have a slightly unfair advantage over the Palestinian militia?
No I can't admit that the Israeli army might have a slight advantage. I can admit that the Israeli military has a vastly superior advantage over any Palestinian force.
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Maybe dealer_3 is being one sided, but why shouldn't he be when people in the west don't get a fair representation of what is happening over there.
Because the very thing dealer3 protest against i.e. unfair representation, is exactly what he is doing. You don't counter misrepresentation by simply throwing some of your own at the situation.
The best way to educate people about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is to be as objective as possible when reporting on it.
I would also dispute the claim that Westerners don't get a fair representation of the facts. On the one hand you have pro-Palestinian groups accusing the West of pro-Israeli bias and on the other hand you have the Israeli government accusing the EU of being pro-Palestinian.
What you will likely find is that most Westerners, certainly in Europe at any rate, are not fully committed to one side over the other. For example, within Britain you have groups who openly champion the Palestinian cause, they don't seem to have been 'brainwashed' by a 'pro-Israeli media' as some might claim.
The public isn't stupid and I don't think of them as such. Most of the media sources I see in Britain do a reasonably good job of reporting on the conflict and proponents of both sides are asked questions by interviewers. You tend not to see inflammatory headlines decrying either side, the reporting tends to focus on the facts. I'm not saying there is no bias, but I certainly don't think the British media is overly pro-Israeli or pro-Palestinian.
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It's easy to get frustrated and emotional when there's so much injustice going on that people don't realise is happening. When was the last time the Israeli army REALLY got a bad report on the news. Not just a quick mention here and there, but a real negative report. It hasn't. Granted there have been documentaries out and about, but nothing from a big news outlet.
I do not expect a 'REALLY bad report' on either side when I watch the news. I watch/read the news to find out what is happening, not to be given the personal opinions of the journalists involved. It is up to me to analysse and digest the report and make of it what I will.
As I said before, from what I have seen of the British media neither side is given any great favouritism. There may very well be some reports that put one side or another in a good or bad light from time to time, but overall it seems to be a reasonably balanced picture.
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You MUST see/hear/read the wordings used when anything is reported from that region. Quite often the Palestinian militia is described as the terrorists (which, when they blow up a bus full of civilians the are). But whenever the Israeli army kill civilians, it's put across to the viewer like it was just an accident or they were just doing their job. Please, you of all people must have noticed this?
But then you are making a generalisation. Take each report on its own merits. What was the motivation for a particular incident, in which the Israeli army shot a Palestinian? Were the troops under attack? Was it unprovoked? Was the victim a member of a terrorist organisation? Was the reaction vastly over the top in relation to the incident? The British media does not get away with misrepresenting the truth for very long, if they tried to spin something another news channel or newspaper would pick them up on it.
There is also a sense of banality I am sad to say. Attacks by either side occur so often, as is the case in Iraq, that they become less and less major news stories so the media doesn't focus on them as much as they perhaps should.
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The Palestinian militia have commited atrocities, as we all know, I just wish the atrocities commited by the Israeli army were reported the same way.
The very fact that we know about and condemn Israeli bulldozers destroying Palestinian homes is indicative that such actions are being reported. Just as is the case when a Palestinian suicide bomber blows himself up. I think what you have to ask yourself is whether you wish the Israelis to be condemned more in the news or whether you want the Israeli's army's actions to be reported more in the news.
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To sum up, if you hear something enough times, from an early age and if you are unobjective and weak minded then you will start beleiving these things. This goes for middleastern and western propoganda.
Which is why we have freedom of speech. Propoganda only works when it goes unchalleneged. If we look at Britain we can see that no single news outlet could spin stories to any great degree because their competitors would report on it.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-05-12 18:47 ]
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Posted: 2006-05-12 19:43:19
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Some good points there too Soulframe.
As with many situations, both Scots and Dealer3/Soulframe have made some good points, perhaps people could take some points that Scots has made and some that D3/SF have made to come to their own conclusions, kind of like a scaled down version of getting your news from different sources (if you catch my meaning).
With regards to the Israeli army and bad press, it got quite a bit recently when that British photographer (sorry, can't remember his name) and activist was shot unlawfully (with a measured and accurate shot, not a pot shot) and killed and the soldier was sucessfully prosecuted. Though many think that officers higher up in the army echelons should have been prosecuted too. But that's another story....
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Posted: 2006-05-12 19:43:29
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I think limiting ourselves to a kind of medias, would not cause to get the truth.
back to the first post of the topic and some of the comments there, I would like to ask: why Israel should exist?
if we look at the map of some years a go there is not a country named Israel there. wipping a country off the map is not necesserily need to nuclear bomb, even to war. I think diplomacy can also wipe a country off the map.
as you can see, these days some real questions has been posed about the existence of Israel. The questions that non of the supporters of Israel
even wants to speak about them...questions that medias want to understate them...
I think if the people of the world be awaked about the genocide occuring on the palestine, the chimerical reasons of Israel's existence, and more important, the paradoxical situation of the nowadays world, there wouldn't be any need to war. because it is the people who elect their diplomats.
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Posted: 2006-05-12 20:27:31
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