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Another angle to this that has been bugging me.......

I buy the iphone for 269 from CPW/O2 shop/Apple store, get it home, log in to itunes to activate it and.........I fail the credit check!!!
What happens then?
Seems a rather stupid and "american" way of doing things if you ask me...
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Posted: 2007-09-20 19:52:31
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Those are the general terms to which I referred earlier, with a full return being required, and an RA number being obtained by the shop.

However, it has been suggested that the business model that is in place for the iphone, means that this set of terms do not apply.

Say for instance you buy the phone at Apple on Regent St. What is stopping you taking the phone home, activating it via Itunes with a £35/month contract and within 14 days cancelling it. you would not be under any obligation to return the phone to Apple, as the contract has nothing to do with them.

This is what I think Doggman was alluding too, and hopefully it has been cleared up.

There is, if this is correct, that Apple etc. sell the phone unsubsidised, and you merely have to sign up online, people could exploit this to get a cheap Iphone, as it would be activated when yo plug it into Itunes, but after cancellation would still be activated. You would merely need to unlock it to use it with any network, or pop any other O2 sim in it to take advantage of the phone.

What remains to be seen is whether O2 will issue unlock codes to non contract customers, or contract customers within the first 14 days. They could, most likely, refuse an unlock code to anyone who does not have a current contract running along side the Iphone, as it is not available on PAYG, maybe lol.

The unlocking is the sticky wicket on this one, but with free unlock solutions it's not that big of a deal, although IMEI unlocking would be good as it would be a PERMANENT solution.




That is another way round it, people have been purposefully failing the AT+T credit check, and merely getting a PAYG sim to use in it.

BUT what most people don't want to do is give their credit card details to AT+T (NSA), as a credit card is required to sign up for the PayG service.
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[ This Message was edited by: seunlock-uk on 2007-09-20 19:01 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-20 19:58:20
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Contract defaulters can and do get their devices barred, IMO anyone who thinks they can scam an iphone on the cheap is in for a big shock so don't say you were'nt warned!!
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Posted: 2007-09-20 20:04:04
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This model would leave this open, it would not be defaulting on a contract, that would imply non payment, in this case due to buying the phone up front, you are well within your rights to 14 day the contract and keep the phone.

However O2 are banking on people not doing that, and also if they do, not unlocking the handset and using it on another network.

They cannot IMEI bar a handset which you have purchased outright. IMEI barring is put in place ONLY for handset which have been reported lost or stolen, and in extreme cases when someone has fraudulently obtained the handset and not paid the bill (fraud/Theft).

If it is indeed true that the handset is not "subsidised" and you do buy it "outright" at the store, then they can't touch it.
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Posted: 2007-09-20 20:13:35
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I see what you mean seunlock-uk.

Question is, if u have to sign up to O2 via itunes to activate the phone, then cancel the contract, what happens when u next hook your iphone to itunes? Will it be deactivated?

I guess we'll see what happens when the full T's and C's come out.
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Posted: 2007-09-20 20:26:59
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@mweb6161

I am not suggesting any one defrauds any one with this that is not my intention at all. I am only speculating and pointing out that i think 02 have copied the US model with out fully thinking it through and it's possible consequences. I also doubt i am the first or only person to have realised this either. Unlike you i don't think it is users that are in for a big shock as 02 have no legal right to bar your property personally i think it is 02 that are in for a big shock as they really don't seem to of thought this one through properly IMO.

@all

There are currently three options go to an Apple store and BUY your iPhone for £269.99 this is then your iPhone and is legally owned by you and no one else as you have paid full retail price for it. At this point in time it has limited functionality but is your property and no one else's.

You can do things the right way and activate it via iTunes and sign up for a minimum cost £35pm contract for 18 months and use it as intended.

Or you cancel your contract within 14 days and just never allow iTunes to update it and only use a 02 PAYG Sim and it will remain fully working and i can see no way it can be deactivated.

Option 3 is you buy it and then just use the available software to both activate it and make it far more functional as far as i am concerned none of this is committing a crime or defrauding anyone.


From reading a lot of the Forums there are a high proportion of iPhones sold that are not being used on the AT&T network. Using the various methods available. But as i have pointed out there is one major difference here in the UK being as you have paid for your iPhone and it is locked this is not legal if you request an unlock code 02 have no right to refuse to sell it to you plain and simple.


I have not even decided if i will even buy an iPhone or not but i definitely wouldn't buy one on a 18month £35pm contract that's for sure.

Marc


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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-20 19:51 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-20 20:39:21
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I have a lot less confidence in the theory that O2 are either dumb enough or generous enough not to have thought about the scenarios refered to above, let's see how the actual retail sales pan out BEFORE anyone on here gets their fingers burnt.
@ Marc, i know you are only theorising and testing the water, i would never imply or portray any aspects as being underhand
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Posted: 2007-09-20 20:51:18
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From my past experience of this (annoyingly o2 are the only network i've yet to try this on) UK networks would only unlock my handset once the initial contract term was up/paid upfront.

I would also be extremely surprised to see the iphone contract NOT having a clause stating that on cancellation of the contract the handset must be returned.

It's been a few years since I was in retail, and this being the 1st unsubsidised handset it's never come up before, but do the networks maybe retain ownership of the handset until after the 14 days?

Oh and networks can and do withdraw the right to a 14day return on occasion, it has to be printed in huge letters on the contract etc etc but it happens now and again. I'm sure O2/Apple/CPW will have this one covered.
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Posted: 2007-09-20 21:19:29
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@exilis

I have unlocked a couple of phones from T-Mobile and was sold the unlock codes both times within days of having the phone without any problems. I have also unlocked a N73 on VodaFone again no where near the end of the contract and not even the phone i originally got from VodaFone either. The law on unlocking has changed radically in the UK.

As far as 02 making you return your iPhone they have zero right or chance of it happening as you have bought and paid for it unsubsidized so is your property straight away not theirs if you decide to activate it or not is your choice to make they can't force you to.

Marc

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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-20 20:37 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-20 21:34:25
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the other 2 i agree with ... this one i'm not sure..

but look here..

http://alexking.org/blog/2007/07/02/iphone-without-service

from what i remember upon activation itunes ties the imei to the sim card that you activate with.. if you do it the "legit" way and swap the prepaid sim it doesn't work cause it won't register.. only after you do a "factory" activation through modding do other sims of the same carrier work... this is the same reason youtube won't work for most people until they mod the activation keys..

here is something i just found...
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1244050
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[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2007-09-20 20:46 ]

[ This Message was edited by: DragonEye on 2007-09-20 20:51 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-20 21:44:57
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