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On 2004-07-26 14:26:45, axxxr wrote:
TURBANATOR pic is RACIST and offensive to a lot of muslims and sikhs alike, who in both faiths wear Turbans as a religious symbol.You may find this funny but i certainly don't..You have again proven yourself to be racist as is your republican stance on Islam.
Well Axxxr ... I, in all honesty, cannot deny that from time to time I have used stereotypes about the perceived race of an individual to come to a premature and incorrect conclusion about them. It isn't right and it is a trait I try hard to face about myself and not repeat. I have made mistakes in the past about being a real racist. As I continue to talk to people and break down the negative stereotypes I've once believed in the racism I've had in me becomes weaker and weaker.
I've noticed that many people throw around the word racist to label and marginalize people they don't want to have to listen to. It is an ugly thing to call someone and it is a serious accusation. I wouldn't blame you if you felt upset or even rage if someone unfairly called you a racist in public.
But about the Turbanator poster. Is it racist? Let's see. What race wears the Turban? Is the turban a symbol of any particular race? What is "Race"?
race n.
A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.
A genealogical line; a lineage.
Humans considered as a group.
Honestly people ... think about this one before jumping to a conclusion.
Being offensive isn't necessarily being racist.
Being racist is always offensive.
rac·ism n.
The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Discrimination or prejudice based on race.
Was there any prejudice or discrimination in this poster directed at a race? Or is it directed more at a symbol of a particular religion? Does disagreement - or even hatred of a particular religion - count as racism? I think to hate all people perceived to be of a particular religion or who are perceived to adhere to a particular cultural practice is bigoted - don't you think? Honestly ... help me on this. I sincerely want to learn this. I'm open to know if I've been misunderstanding this.
And if I'm wright - and the picture is bigoted ... does it make me bigoted to post it? Who does it show? When you look at it, tell me if it makes G.W. Bush look good or bad. I'm going to venture a guess. Many of you think it shows G.W. Bush in a poor light - yes? I just happen to agree. I saw it and laughed. It, I believe, is critical of Bush ... not pro. SO ... if you posted a picture that tended to show someone as a bigot - does that make you a bigot or racist?
So - back to the ugly slurs people throw at each other. Although I deal with the racism I've grown up with all the time ... and although I know I have lots to learn ... I am not as toxic a racist as Axxxr has accused me of being.
I suspect Axxxr is just unwilling to discuss the real issues in a real head on debate. Many may not agree with my positions - but I promise I will not label you in order to get people to marginalize what you say or to try to stop you from expressing your arguments. But I will make a good argument for my side of the debate.
P.S. - I'm not Christian and I know far too little about Islam to judge it in any way at this time.
P.S.S. - But if I did know enough about it to have an opinion on it - that still wouldn't make me a racist - EVEN if I didn't agree with any part of it at all.
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Posted: 2004-07-26 16:26:22
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Well said Patric. Some people did need a lesson on what the meaning of racism is since they run around shouting racism a lot.
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Posted: 2004-07-26 16:30:42
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On 2004-07-26 16:30:42, anish wrote:
Well said Patric. Some people did need a lesson on what the meaning of racism is since they run around shouting racism a lot.
It is an unfortunate reality. I try not to label people carelessly. I am lots of things - and many of them may not be all that good - but I'm not a racist. And if I am - I don't want to be - and I'm willing to learn.
And as someone wise once said: The truth shall set you free!
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Posted: 2004-07-26 16:43:10
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Well patrick giving long and detailed explainations does'nt put in the clear and the TURBANATOR poster refers to killing of many thousands of taliban and Afghan people by american troops!who wore TURBANS by the way in case u did'nt know!!..
And Anish you have made it absolutely clear to me your dislike and hatred of muslims.and what does that make you??...Yes correct a RACIST!...so don't try and hide behind cocky remarks.
Anish and patrick and can form there own little club now!!!
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Posted: 2004-07-26 16:50:33
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Hey guys is this getting serious? Please stop this. We have had similar discussions in the past. We have better things to discuss than racism.
This message was posted from a WAP device
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Posted: 2004-07-26 17:02:40
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On 2004-07-26 16:50:33, axxxr wrote:
And Anish you have made it absolutely clear to me your dislike and hatred of muslims.and what does that make you??...Yes correct a RACIST!...so don't try and hide behind cocky remarks.
Anish and patrick and can form there own little club now!!!
If some people don't learn even after reading then we can't do any thing to help them I thought the explanation Patric gave above was so well explained in simple english that a 6 year old could understand that
but once again even if I hate all muslims, which I don't and have made it amply clear that I have many friends who are muslims and I come from a country which has the second highest muslim population in the world, that doesn't make me a Racist by the definition of the word racist try to understand that. What I said in the other threads is about the extremists like Abu hamsa here in UK (thank god he is behind the bars )
now you always mention about hiding behind forums and posts (you said the same in the george bush thread), I don't know where you got that illusion that I am hiding, I am here on a public forum for a over a year have made more than 500 quality posts helping people about phone issues (not garbage and copy pasting) and I am even using my own name as my username something which you are not brave enough to do so it's well clear that its you who are hiding behind a pseudonym and shouting RACISM when ever you find it hard to make a rational well supported argument. Also it is not me who requests through PM not to reply to your posts and not to challenge your arguments, thats very brave as well I assume.
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Posted: 2004-07-26 17:10:52
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ive known extreme rasists. ive gone out of my way to help them open there mind to the subject, and remove their hatred, but ended up putting as much distance from them as possible. all of them have the same trait. narrow-mindedness. this always seemed to be due to fact that they treat people of other races as in-animate objects. like a picture, for instance... if patrick knew someone that wears a turban, he wouldnt have posted that picture. narrow minded people dont want to know that some people of other cultures have different beliefs, so all they see is a picture. it OBVIOUSLY doesnt help with a extremist leader in america blinding the people to the real truth behind the other motivations of the invasion of iraq.... anyway, wish i had more time to follow this up, but i'll second, whatever @axxxr writes.
This message was posted from a P900
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Posted: 2004-07-26 17:14:59
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On 2004-07-26 16:50:33, axxxr wrote:
Well patrick giving long and detailed explainations does'nt put in the clear and the TURBANATOR poster refers to killing of many thousands of taliban and Afghan people by american troops!who wore TURBANS by the way in case u did'nt know!!..
Thank you for continuing to talk to me ...
Yes... The Turbanator does refer to exactly what you say. As I mentioned in my "long and detailed" post above - which you apparently didn't take the time to read - the poster tends to show bush as a killer of those who wear Turbans ... not a good guy.
Let's see if I can make this easier for you to comprehend.
IT ... IS ... AN ... ANTI ... BUSH ... POSTER
I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to make it any more plain - so I hope you understand what I'm saying now.
For everyone else reading this post just think of it this way:
If Axxxr posted that picture we would all assume it was an Anti-Bush poster and that even though it showed Bush as a Bigot or Racist ... it would not have made ANYONE think Axxxr was a Racist.
Quote:And Anish you have made it absolutely clear to me your dislike and hatred of muslims.and what does that make you??...Yes correct a RACIST!...so don't try and hide behind cocky remarks.
I know you're not talking to me anymore, Axxxr, but as you've asserted that you don't talk to Racists ... you sure seem to do a lot of talking with those you've labeled as such!
And once again - I ask - how does hating a particular religion (read: Belief system with ways of worshiping and relating to the world) make one a racist? If you hate people just because they belong to a particular religion it might be reasonable to call you a bigot. But if you hate a religion ... well, I guess you just hate that religion.
Remember there are Muslims of just about all, if not all, races. (this assumes that you believe in the concept of actual races - which I have a hard time with because it is all about perception, not scientific reality)
Now I haven't read all Anish has posted so I don't know for sure if he is a racist or bigot OR not. But if you were as quick to call Anish a racist as you were me ... then I can only assume your accusation against him is just as credible.
Quote:Anish and patrick and can form there own little club now!!!
Woo hoo! Can I be the president of the club?
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Posted: 2004-07-26 17:18:41
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I would like to make one point clear. Just accusing somebody of being a racist on the basis of a paragraph he has written isn't right. I am not supporting or against anybody. Also i can't see that pic on WAP so i can't comment on that.
This message was posted from a WAP device
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Posted: 2004-07-26 17:20:05
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Yeh whatever Anish....Its best if i do not get into any debate with the likes of you..I would love to meet you face to face the see how much of a man your really!..thats asumeing your a man at all!..I suggest you refrain from getting into any kind of debate with me as we obviously don't see eye to eye on anything.
Goodbye!!
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Posted: 2004-07-26 17:20:22
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