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Huh, it looks like they've redesigned the X1 slightly (for the better) around the mini-USB port and the screen orientation button (from what I remember). I'd take the X1 all the way - The hardware keyboard would be great and I really really love the design of the X1. So cool.
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Posted: 2008-05-29 14:22:43
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@Dogmann, you should not speed read my posts. You are misinterpreting my points.

I said X1 mp4@30fps may be just as good as e90's h.264@30fps depending on the codec implementation. Bitrate is crucial. Of course 15fps H.264 in the X1 would be useless. 15fps sucks in any format. Remember, H.264 is extremely CPU intensive in the encode and decode.


Perhaps my sentence structure is confusing. Let me rephrase it: 3gp is just a version of H.264. However, 3gp is modified for the constraints of mobile phones.

mpeg4 = mpeg4-part 2
h.264 = mpeg4-part 10
.3gp = simplified mpeg4-part 14
Standard Def DVD = mpeg2


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Posted: 2008-05-29 14:52:44
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@WhyBe

Maybe you should also not speed read my posts as quite simply 3gp is NOT a version of H.264 and never will be 3gp like H.264 is Mpeg4. H.263 is also a version of Mpeg4 and both H.263 and 3gp are not as a high quality as H.264. You have even posted that they are all codecs of Mpeg4 so i really can't understand how or why you think H.264 is part of 3gp as quite clearly it isn't.

So that you don't get confused the 30fps Mpeg4 in the X1 is 3gp or H.263 and both of these offer lower quality than H.264 the X1 is only able to render H.264 @15fps.

The reason that H.264 is the preferred codec is that it gives better quality from a similar file size.

Maybe to clarify it further you need to understand that the reason the Nokia's are able to handle H.264 is not just down to the processor speed but also the graphics processor that in the case of the Nokia's is the PowerVR MBX.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-29 14:13 ]
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Posted: 2008-05-29 15:07:19
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@Dogmann
I understand you clearly. 3gp is a part of the mpeg4 standard. The video encoding used in 3gp can be h.263 or h.264 or mpg4-part 2. WIKI Ref

I never said which has superior video between X1 or e90. I was just pointing out the fact that just because e90 sports h.264 @ 30 fps does not automatically make it superior to X1 mp4 @ 30 fps. You have to factor in bitrate capabilities of the X1 and e90 for those respective formats. Then visually compare the resultant video.

I know h.264 is the new "superior" format, but that assumes you have the sufficient CPU power to fully implement it and the bitrates used are sufficient to maintain original video quality.

[ This Message was edited by: WhyBe on 2008-05-29 14:36 ]
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Posted: 2008-05-29 15:26:32
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@WhyBe

If I am not wrong, H.263 is at least twice less efficient than H.264. Logic tells us that X1 would not implement a high bitrate H.263 as file size will be too huge. Typical video rec quality of N95/e90 H264 video bitrate can go as high as 5000kbps which results in about 20Mb per min of video. Achieving the same bitrate in H263 would result in an unacceptable large file size.

So going by what was implemented in K850 3gp which is about 100kbps, even if we assume that X1 can triple or quadruple this bitrate, the quality is still way below n-series. Typically those H263 video will look very blocky (i.e. unusable) if you view it on a large screen LCD/TV.

So in order to view X1 recorded video on a tv, you would have to use H264 @15fps to record which inadvertantly has jerky motion. H253 @30fps video is only good for viewing on the phone.



edited:

just saw the MDA Vario/HTC Raphael being announced. X1 prospect is looking much bleaker now since this Raphael has same or better spec than X1 (like 256MB ram, tv-out) and at about the same size and weight

[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-05-29 15:25 ]

[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2008-05-29 15:26 ]
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Posted: 2008-05-29 16:01:55
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Looking at the Raphael/Diamon processor though its the MSM7201A, which is the US version that does'nt support H.264 and is simlar to the current TyTn II in video playback, I hope this is not the case, if it is then if I do buy a phone in the coming months it will be the X1 or the newly previed supposed Dream which has a built in compass and a capactive screen running android.
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Posted: 2008-05-29 16:46:47
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Well, I'll be interested in seeing how all of this looks on the devices. If the e90 has the CPU power to implement h.264 @ vga @ 30 fps and at a respectable bitrate, then that's one powerful beast.

@All
How many smartphones do you guys go through in a year?
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Posted: 2008-05-29 17:24:12
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@WhyBe

Firstly, the CPU power does'nt effect your Video recording as much as the 3D accelerator does, the PowerVR accelerator on the OMAP 2420 processors used by Nokia are market leading and i used on the iPhone as well, from the documentation the MSM7200 was supposed to be better than that thoug, but till date a superior implementation of hardware acceleration to that of Nokias in multimedia is yet to be seen. I'm not an expert on video codecs I dont even watch video on my device but when I pay money for a device as high end as the X1 I expect the best, I'm sure you agree with this, but it looks like it'll still lag behind the then 2yr old N95 .

This year has been quite a few actually:
lets see 2 Nokia S60 3rd Edition
2 Linux Based Handsets on EZX
1 UIQ
1 WM(I'm quite happy with this, 7 months and counting )
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Posted: 2008-05-29 17:47:46
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I sort of figured an addiction problem
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Posted: 2008-05-29 17:52:59
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@Whybe

As i explained no one really uses 30fps as that is just not necessary as most films and TV shows are only encoded @23/24fps so increasing the frame rate gives no advantage other than increasing the likelihood of it being out of sync.

Well done you have just realised that the the E90 is one of the most powerful Symbian smart phones and as you put it one powerful beast.

As Symbian requires far less processing power then WM so the 330mhz OMAP 2420 is more than enough. Now add to that the PowerVR MBX graphics processor and yes it plays converted films and TV shows perfectly @ 800x352 in full screen on the E90 with no dropped frames stutter or out of sync audio. It also plays H.264 natively in Real Player no need to buy or use a 3rd party player either.

That is why i have stated it is better than what the X1 will be able to do and why the X1 doesn't eat every other device out there especially when it comes to Multimedia.

Well so far this year i have only had a N95 8Gb for the first two weeks as had that since November and then my E90 since 8th January. Plus i had an iPhone but put that back in the box after 3 days and sold it as just didn't enjoy using a touchscreen and found it annoying. In the previous 16 months i had a P910, M600, N70, N73, N93, TyTn, E61, N95, N95 8GB which is 9 but i have now slowed down my addiction to getting new devices. So although i may try either a BB Bold or Android device this year I'm not planning on getting rid of my E90. As i will use my upgrade for one of those and just sell it after a while.

Marc

_________________
Nokia E90,8GB SDHC, Fring, Seven, Tom Tom 6
Coming soon BlackBerry Bold
Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2008-05-29 17:12 ]
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Posted: 2008-05-29 17:59:38
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