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If you think I'm that stupid then you haven't been noticing that I actually have a clue about technology? I'll check into your podcast claim, if you are right and I can see video that is "near DVD quality" I will quite willingly cede the point to you. But none of the unedited video direct from N95 phones that I have seen even approaches "DVD" quality. This includes the video samples provided by reviews etc.


to be brutally honest mate, you didn't make any sense whatsoever - reread your reply to Mode, it's not clear at all. Nevertheless I am happy to apologise for misinterpreting that and retract the statement - it really seemed to me that you were saying that I had mentioned something about DVD quality, which I never had.

In my market, SE phones are considerably cheaper than Nokia (for example K850 much cheaper than N80, P1 much cheaper than N95), so I really can't accept the argument that the N95 is better value for money. Better maybe (sans freaking touchscreen), but not better value. About the same imho. Add the touchscreen into the equation and the P1 is imho much better value for money than the N95.


For my needs and those who think like I do, the N95 is much more premium and not as good value for money (and I am by no means some strange individual all alone who likes touchscreens, SE UI, SE styling).

I've got no problem with people moaning about it, but they have no right to accuse people who get satisfaction out of SE of being fanboys or apologisers.

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[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2007-10-26 02:33 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-26 03:13:39
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@Max

Sorry but i really think you are in need of a holiday or just a break as you really are beginning to loose it. Why are you being so defensive and aggressive the whole time? Also why does everything now have to be compared to the N95 continuously as though this is some benchmark especially when what we are talking about has nothing to do with it. I find it very hard to believe a well over a year old N80 is more expensive then a K850 is that really the price in Aus? in fact I'm amazed you can still find a new one.

Where any where in this whole thread have i made any suggestion that you are stupid? Also i would hardly judge Video quality posted on the web as a guide as to how good or bad video quality is as any web based video quality is always reduced for bandwidth constraints if nothing else so really isn't a good example of how to judge qaulity.

Now if you said you have seen video from one of these devices directly on the device or using TV out that would be credible viewing it on the Web just isn't. As i said download a podcast from All About Symbian and see what you think.

Again re better value for my money why compare it to the N95 as you said you want a touchscreen compare it to a HTC Kaiser that has all the tech i am talking about. It really is impossible to claim that SE's are much cheaper than other devices because they are missing the tech look how much the initial UIQ3 devices were and there prices only dropped because of their problems. I very much doubt the W960 is going to be cheap by any stretch of the imagination so this argument of SE are cheaper really makes no sense IF they were cheaper they are still old tech.

Can you please stop this obsession with the N95 we get you don't rate it but why do you have to compare everything all the time to it. You mention it all the time now and compare it to devices it is not comparable to.

Marc

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[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-26 03:15 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-26 04:13:40
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With 2007 coming to a close, it quite distinct on how the manufacturers can be divided.

Nokia, Samsung & LG => progressive
SE , Moto =>regressive

I am surprise that SE did not fall below LG in ranking this year with its mediocre "carry over from 2006" phones. Maybe the thing that save SE is the SE name itself. Maybe a knee-jerk will be good for SE. Look at LG which hits back with great phone like Chocolate, Shine, Prada, Viewty. I wont be surprise if LG overtakes SE in 2008 if SE sit on its ass and continues its 2007 strategy into 2008.

One thing is for certain. SE is falling further behind Noka and samsung in cutting edge phone. Even Moto makes some progress with its Z8 smart but SE just recycle its UIQ3 phones from last year. Worse is SE still believes in the fallacy that consumers are gullible enough to pay a premium price for its (lower) spec-ed phones which is evident in the ridiculous pricing of "yesterday" phones W910/K850/W960.

Eventhough I am not a fan of SE, last year my feeling was that SE was very potent and nimble nipping away at Nokia to be the best in tech phones. (I believe many of you felt the euphoria with p990 or K800 or w-series). Certainly at that time, I would not have ranked SE below LG or samsung in tech phones. Unfortunately that is just what had happened this year.


[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-10-26 06:56 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-26 07:53:25
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I'll ignore this little unsult

I am not being aggressive or defensive, I'm just stating my opinions. You are reading more into it than I am actually saying.

I repeat again, I am not the one who mentions Nokia first. Whenever someone tries to say they think SE phones are great, suddenly the naysayers are waxing on about how much better Nokia are and therefore SE are crap. So I am forced to give my reasons why I think SE are better than Nokia. It's not me who starts the Nokia comarisons, but if someone wants to start it I'll be happy to finish it my friend.

Sorry, I was thinking of the N80/K800 pair not K850.

I never accused you of calling me stupid. However implying I don't know about the re-filtering of YOUTUBE video is tantamount to calling me stupid. As you yourself said, you will laugh if I am talking about you tube video. Read my post carefully you will see I was talking about video direct from the phone itself ie: mp4 files created by the phone and provided by reviewers for download. I wasn't talking about youtube, google, or any kind of resampled or streamed video - I am talking about the actual video file produced by the N95 itself.


Actually if you record a video with the N95, then save the mp4 file direct off the phones file system and post it on a filesharing service such as rapidshare, and the person (me in this case) who downloads the video will have a pure unadulterated example of the video that the N95 produces. From that it is possible to determine the kind of quality the N95 is capable of.

some htc are nice I admit, but the one's that have all the goods are expensive. Very few HTC have decent cameras (forget about spec, I'm not talking about MP, or even AF, they just suck quality wise)

I agree with this example but not for P1 or the A200 K850. And it will only be for the first 6 months as all OEM's do. After that the price will settle down

As I said above I initially make my arguments on merit alone but am shouted down about how bad SE are with examples of Nokia bettering SE. And people expect I should just accept that SE are crap because they are behind in some areas? What you can't get, is that I have nothing against the N95. I actually like it (don't love it, but I do like it) and the only real things that turn me off are the lack of touchscreen for the price, the slide formfactor, the battery life, the slight advantage (in my view) of the K850 still camera and the Nokia UI. Of those things the UI and lack of touchscreen are the clinchers. If it had a touchscreen and an SE or WM UI, I would be interested.

Believe me I rate it but why should I have to rate it higher than P1 or K850? Surely it's my perogative to decide for myself what phone I think is better considering all factors, not just a list of specs on a sheet of paper?

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Posted: 2007-10-26 09:40:24
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@Max

Ignore my piece of advice if you really feel it is a little insult but it's not just me that is commenting on your attitude and that includes your fellow SE supporters.

Sorry but you are the one that is mentioning the N95 the whole time now in your post's the only time any one else does in this thread is to refute the claims you are making. What has been said in others threads is relevant to the other threads not what we are discussing here. So sorry but it is you that is constantly bringing the N95 up not anyone else.

You are not just stating your opinions but you are being both defensive and aggressive i am not the only one mentioning this either so no i am not reading more into it.

Here is a perfect example of the above

"I repeat again, I am not the one who mentions Nokia first. Whenever someone tries to say they think SE phones are great, suddenly the naysayers are waxing on about how much better Nokia are and therefore SE are crap. So I am forced to give my reasons why I think SE are better than Nokia. It's not me who starts the Nokia comparisons, but if someone wants to start it I'll be happy to finish it my friend."

As by looking through this thread i can see no suggestion by anyone of the things you claim above only what you do in this respect. It is you that is creating this constant comparison even with devices that have been out well over a Year. As of course the N80 was more expensive than a K800 the K800 is just a camera phone the N80 a smart phone. Yes the K800 takes better pictures than the N80 but that's it, the N80 has one of the best screens found in any device along with WiFi and S60 i would of been more surprised if it was the same price and yet again you are comparing SE to Nokia no one else brought this up but you.

As to where you viewed the N95 video's just saying it's from a review gives very little information as to from what source just because you know where it was from doesnt mean anyone else does unless you tell us. As obviously i wouldn't of made the comments if i knew where they were from now would i?

The P1 really is not a great example as SE said it would sell at the same price as the P990 on launch as it was initially offered only due to the lack of take up by both Networks and users did it's price drastically reduce to start selling and the reason it dropped in price was it wasn't worth what they initially tried to sell it for. The K850 is also very expensive for just a camera phone and again the fact it's price drops so fast means either it is over priced to start with or needs a price reduction to start selling in large numbers neither of these things are good IMO.

Again no one has said you have to either rate it higher or like it, but you really can't try and claim the either the P1 as a smart phone or the K850 as a camera phone are more advanced. In case you hadn't noticed many people's K850 have lots of problems yet suddenly these are just a few bugs that will get fixed. Yet when it was the N95 it meant they were all rubbish and so was Nokia double standards or what. I also wonder unlike Nokia that realeased new firmwares fast if SE will yet again take 2 months plus to release new firmware each time and that is a problem. It's bad enough having a device that needs new Firmware but waiting 4-6 months for it to be sorted in really unacceptable IMO.

Marc

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Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6


Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-10-26 11:03 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-26 12:03:44
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@max I bothered to look at your homepage - I was wrong - I like the way you promot Nokia. I almost thouth you are a SE . . .
@mib Yes, it looks like SE has fallen behind LG. All are so evenly matched - very difficult to say. Places 2 to 5 are very close indeed. SE will post even bigger losses at the end of dec. if the first month in this quarter is anything to go by. Of course MAX, if you believe in miracles, SE will be first before the end of the year
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Posted: 2007-10-26 15:01:31
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@mario2004

Q3 2006 was an exceptionally good one for the company, whose figures surprised even its own estimates. Its sales that quarter were 42% up on the year before, so a 10% drop really is not surprising when you consider that the figures for the year before even exceeded the company's own estimates.



source.

[ This Message was edited by: goldenface on 2007-10-26 15:34 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-26 15:57:32
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LOL ... W910 is in this list too? That's mean, I like the W910!
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Posted: 2007-10-26 16:10:40
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Whatever you guys are talking about, I'm on SE's side, so whenever someone says something good about SE, I'm with him!

Call me a fanboy and I'll say it's true. BUT I do have a reason to be one, don't I?
GO SE, GO!
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Posted: 2007-10-26 16:18:14
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W910i-Pathetic built in camera. No camera Shutter, No Flash
Charge inlet on side ,Poor speaker sound.
'It is a long road that has no turning' the walkman Series

1.Ah yes this is the k910 yea its got a GREAT cam for a Walkman phone also a camera shutter..
though pity a flash/or a-f
2. charge inlet is on theside like the last 3/4 walkman phones and thats for a good reason..
3.speaker isnt poor, get over it.
long straight road - heading towards something better? damn right:)
if you turned,, something is bound to shizzle up, get my drift


[ This Message was edited by: DarkKrypt on 2007-10-26 15:21 ]
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Posted: 2007-10-26 16:18:51
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