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On 2012-10-31 18:23:03, cu015170 wrote:
I still don't understand why people expect amazing quality from 1.4-1.1 micron pixels.. they are all pretty much the same, negligible difference here and there. Its just not going to happen. There is only one exception to the rule.. 808.
The 808 will destroy the 920 @ 800 iso.. guaranteed, even without a tripod.
As far as long exposures.. what is the point when your photos will be full of grain and noise ? There are several examples of long exposure shots from the 808 taken by esato users, and.. ya those are proper, and I am sure the 920 will not be able to produce such results.
You're way off from what is really happening!
1. The noise you're seeing from the 920 has nothing to do with long exposures. It's normal ISO noise. For a sensor at that size, it's normal to get such noise levels at ISO 800!!
As to LE noise, it's not an issue at such SS! No one applies LE NR at one second SS! And the Lumia 920 shoots most of the time at faster times than 1 second..
2. Images from a smartphone aren't supposed to end up blown up at 28x36 cm!! These photos end up with their vast majority online such as Facebook and if printed, not at a bigger size than the standard 15x10 or 13x18 at most.
So going into those details and pixel peeping is meaingless for such shooters. Now for enthusiasts that are looking to use their cameraphones for more than just basic point and shoot and just capture those random moments where a standalone camera isn't available, but rather use the cameraphone as a dedicated point and shoot, then we shall compare these phones at these deep details. However, manufacturers need to sell, not simply impress some geeks or few hobbyists! And selling a product to the average user means one needs to address this average users needs and use cases and not make a fully featured fully capable cameraphone who just a few can make a good use of!
For vast majority of smartphone users, when they look at those daylight comparisons of a 808 vs any other modern smartphone, they won't tell the difference. Heck, you may get even some preferring the other phones due to color reproduction.. No one would be looking at detail and noise levels. Coloring, contrast, white balance, and lack of visible blur are the criteria to judge on. As simple as that.
And so for daylight and any acceptably lit scene all of these smartphones will deliver the similar results. Nothing that would be outstanding enough for a consumer to consider picking a smartphone for!
Here comes the 920's magic. For low light, where these smartphones struggle, and deliver unusable dark photos, the 920 rather delivers something useful and unique! All on auto setting as well:
Look at the difference between these two pictures taken with 808 and 920.
No smartphone buyer would take the 808 photo over the 920!
The difference in brightness and scene clarity is significant. And if you go compare this to other smartphones the difference is huge!
Now of course in the future when Nokia mashes the two PureViews together, we'd get a way better result and an ultimate cameraphone. But for now, the 920 delivers what it's supposed to be delivering.
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Posted: 2012-11-04 10:05:28
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Ah,you talk sense
all what you said made sense. It is good at night shots and like the Lumia 800 which had imperfect daylight shots when released,it'll improve with software updates
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Posted: 2012-11-04 11:57:00
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Shots Taken From 808 PureView PRO Are Much Better And That Even a
Blind Man Perceives And Recognizes !!!
As To Itself 920 PureView LITE,
It Disappointed Me !
For He Is a
Sony Xperia T With 8 Megapixels, Presents The Same Results !
Clear Photos, With Good Sharpness But All This Accompanied By
Excessive Noise And
Very Low Detail... Especially In
Daytime Photos !
For These And Other 808 PureView PRO That Will Continue To Be
King Of Cameraphones For
Many Years !!!
920 PureView Lite Is Merely An
Adjunct In The World Of Image And Video Alongside
Xperia T,
Optimus G,
Galaxy S III,
Galaxy Note II,
Ativ S,
Xperia P,
Windows Phone 8X And
IPhone 5 !
[ This Message was edited by: Guarulhos on 2012-11-04 15:51 ]
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Posted: 2012-11-04 16:48:00
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Well,the night shots speak for themselves though. As for daytime shots I am sure with a good dose of sunlight it'll be fine. Like most mobile phone cameras in grey dull weather they produce dull shots. If I were behind the lens of the 920 I would come up with better shots than from what I have so far seen cuz I know get the best out of a camera.
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Posted: 2012-11-04 16:54:00
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P.S:
Cheap Tricks Software Never Overcome The Laws Of Physics !
808 PureView PRO:
* Sensor:
Cmos FSI (1/1.2")
* Pixel Size:
38 MP (1.4 Microns) / 8 MP (3.07 Microns) / 5 Megapixels (3.91 Microns) / 3 MP (4.89 Microns)
* Total Pixel Are Used:
7728 x 5368 - 41.4 MP
920 PureView LITE:
* Sensor:
Cmos BSI (1/3")
* Pixel Size:
1.4 Microns
* Total Pixel Are Used:
3553 x 2448 - 8.7 MP
So Simple !!! 
[ This Message was edited by: Guarulhos on 2012-11-26 22:49 ]
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Posted: 2012-11-04 16:55:04
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To Make the Camera 920 PureView LITE Becoming A Good Camera And Who Know At Least Better Than Current Top Of The Line (Android, IOS And Windows Phone) Only Genius
J.R. DURAN !
[ This Message was edited by: Guarulhos on 2012-11-04 16:01 ]
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Posted: 2012-11-04 17:00:12
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Nobody doubted that the 920 is definitely in a lesser league to the 808 regarding general imaging!
We were just discussing and comparing the low night hand-held situations without flash! And the 920 is the benchmark in this specific area. I don't get it why some would deny this!
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Posted: 2012-11-04 17:24:04
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^ I am still not so sure about that... proper testing is required
I hope GSMarena or dpreview do us the favor of comparing them in low light, but even then.. someone needs to know how to shoot with the 808 in low light, or at least put in night mode ..
The 920 daytime performance will get better, but overall it will never be as good as the 808, in fact.. no where near that, just like most other smartphones. Like Guarulhos said, you can't trick a small sensor into producing amazing quality. In fact.. that is why I still think that the 808 will do better in low light, the pixels it produces are capable of collecting more light (since they are technically bigger) so therefore I don't see how the 920 can produce a better quality image in low light, yes.. it might brighter due to a longer exposure, but with all the noise/grain there is really little point to it anyway.
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Posted: 2012-11-04 18:01:57
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On 2012-11-04 18:01:57, cu015170 wrote:
^ I am still not so sure about that... proper testing is required
I hope GSMarena or dpreview do us the favor of comparing them in low light, but even then.. someone needs to know how to shoot with the 808 in low light, or at least put in night mode ..
Hopefully will be doing it myself next week.
Can't compare it to an 808, but have an N8 at hand. And other smartphones and my DSLR.
The 920 daytime performance will get better, but overall it will never be as good as the 808, in fact.. no where near that, just like most other smartphones. Like Guarulhos said, you can't trick a small sensor into producing amazing quality.
Think of the 920 this way: It delivers standard modern smartphone camera quality, plus two things: usable low light flashless shots + stabilised video. A significantly better LED flash could be the third factor, but we're still to test that.
In fact.. that is why I still think that the 808 will do better in low light, the pixels it produces are capable of collecting more light (since they are technically bigger) so therefore I don't see how the 920 can produce a better quality image in low light, yes.. it might brighter due to a longer exposure, but with all the noise/grain there is really little point to it anyway.
Here's the whole deal in details:
Size of sensor here doesn't matter to determine the exposure!
Regardless of what sensor and camera in use, calculating the exposure value at a given fixed lit scene, depends on three factors only: Exposure time, ISO, and Aperture.
So bigger sensors don't collect more light at same EV. This goes against fundamentals of physics.
However, the difference will be in the quality of the end resulst different sensors and cameras produce.
For instance, at the same exposure, my D7000 will always deliver better photos than either of the 808 or 920.
Now the trick here with the 920, it's capturing a different exposure to that of other cameraphones including the 808.
In other words, the 920 is collecting more light. Letting more light in.
Result will be a more exposed photo than that of the others. However, at ISO 800 as one variable of the equation, the 920 will deliver in this case (low light situations) better exposed photos but worse noise levels to the 808!
Now if you set the 808 in night mode, it will boost the ISO to 1600 (a complete stop) and also decrease the SS a bit.
However, the 920 at night mode, it goes to 1 sec SS (2.5 stops over auto mode) and hence it will be able to lower the ISO by 2.5 stops and get the best balance between detail and noise.
So far I've not seen proper night mode shots with the 920. Everybody has been testing it in auto mode.
Only Engadget did night mode, but in ridiculously low light situations! I would rather use the night mode where they used the auto mode in their samples!
In brief, getting the right exposure is more important than noise and detail!
If you can't expose the photo right, why bother analyze it any further?!!
This is the 920's trick.
Now of course you can brighten the 808's JPEGs later on, but on expense of loss of quality and more noise! So no benefit.
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Posted: 2012-11-04 18:18:55
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From slashgear:
"I asked the sales guy at nokia about the problem in daylight imaging nd he told me that he saw some reviews too and that this problem exists only in the phones with specific carrier branding in the UK and the US as they were released to them a month before the actual release. Out here our carriers sell phones from Nokia and therefore they come with the latest firmware."
Good news!
[ This Message was edited by: Ravager on 2012-11-04 18:19 ]
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Posted: 2012-11-04 19:19:06
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