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On 2014-02-28 20:21:05, Gitaroo wrote:
3% profit margin for tv, my god, whats the point of even doing it, at this point its almost like each company just want to stick around long enough and out live the rest so they have the entire market to themselves. I can see samsung doing that cause of the backing they have. I just hope Sony can keep their TV division around especially after triluminos tech being so awesome. It should be the best LCD tech for a long time until OLED become affordable for the mass market.
Samsung would argue technically they make above average return on investment for their TV business. They are beating the industry average so they claim it is a successful operation. My suspicion is the original plan was drive other players (Sony, Sharp, Panasonic) out of the market, and with less competition margins would return to normal. However with flat panels suffering continuous price deflation and with new cheap Chinese rivals, this won't happen. In a few years Samsung's TV business may well end up in a similar position as BRAVIA. Samsung may be cash-rich but with falling prices you can only cut costs so much. We call it "The race to zero". Its not a game you want to play.
For LG, the No 2 player, I think some quarters are profitable and others run at a loss. Average it out and they make nothing but they don't lose much either. I've actually visited LG's factories in Korea, including one that tested mobile products. I can't publicly describe everything I saw, but nothing blew me away (and I'm not saying that for the benefit of Sony fans).
One qualitative reason for operating a marginal business like TV manufacturing is brand association. Sony would claim (as the No 3 player) BRAVIA has positive association with the Sony brand. It complements the parent company's other products even if it makes nothing in profit. Consumers might buy Sony phones because they know the TVs and look for brand familiarity. After all, Sony Trinitron TVs were legendary. Brand heritage is hard to let go.
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Posted: 2014-02-28 23:18:47
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@Smaug
yeah I agree and I can totally see this will be the case say if Z2 become very popular, which were what Sony is expecting to at least in EU, and people love the screen and find out that they can get a large scale consumer tv using the same tech. The tech seems to be better than all LED LCD and Plasma tv, maybe just behind OLED, but the price is far more affordable than OLED and competitive even compare to other brand flagship Plasma or LED LCD. Speaking of Chinese rivals, there, maybe its because I live in Canada, I don't know any cheap chinese brand around here.
[ This Message was edited by: Gitaroo on 2014-02-28 23:00 ]
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Posted: 2014-02-28 23:54:47
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But I guess in Canada you see plenty of Chinese people. They love migrating (on 'investment migration') to Canada then
going to pick up their benefits in their BMWs.
Gotta love it...[s]
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Posted: 2014-03-01 00:16:02
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lol, saw that article, good old china smack, to be honest with you, it looks like those women were confused with free gift for all with free gift for the poor, especially when its holiday season.
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Posted: 2014-03-01 00:39:54
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you obviously don't know the true nature of a certain group of Chinese women.
I wish I still had notions of giving the benefit of the doubt.
[ This Message was edited by: Ricky D on 2014-03-01 00:11 ]
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Posted: 2014-03-01 01:10:52
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On 2014-02-28 23:54:47, Gitaroo wrote:
Speaking of Chinese rivals, there, maybe its because I live in Canada, I don't know any cheap chinese brand around here.
They're a dime a dozen. You'll only see a few brands being exported and typically end up in the discount section of Canada's version of Walmart. China has over a hundred native car manufacturers too, but you'd never know it. Their manufacturing prowess is unquestionable and they won't stay confined to their native shores forever.
Without trying to derail the thread, I once worked closely with a Chinese TV manufacturer whose brand also started with "S". Their investment disclosures, corporate financial statements and structure were the very definition of opaque (and that's being polite). If you think Amazon or Google were tax evaders, they had nothing on this lot. Even their own product lineup documents contained pictures of Sony BRAVIA TVs and clear evidence of IP theft. The deeper we dug, the more it stopped being funny and started getting dangerous. Worryingly, this was no small company: they are one of China's top TV brands.
Their phones makers are also numerous, but there are several genuine standouts: Huawei, ZTE and Xiaomi for example. Few have heard of Xiaomi but their mobile sales are fast catching Sony's. They are ultra cheap, have decent specs and their CEOs are very ambitious. We would be wise to remember there was a time when no-one had heard of Samsung either and Apple was on the verge of bankruptcy.
I don't think Kaz loses much sleep over upstart rivals, but it is a poignant reminder that Sony needs to continually invest in what matters most. Focusing on "wowing" customers, creating evocative designs and maintaining their brand image will serve well... but there is an increasing roll-call of analysts calling on Sony to exit the consumer electronics industry.
It would be a sad day indeed if there was no Xperia Rumours 2016 thread, but fortunately that is highly unlikely. Mobile was identified as 1 of Sony's 3 core areas, so we have much to look forward to. The same cannot be said for BRAVIA.
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Posted: 2014-03-01 01:32:39
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supercoolman Posts: > 500
On 2014-02-28 21:16:57, vivftp wrote:
Indeed, it's amusing to see people on the internet ragging on the Z2, claiming that barely anything has changed since the Z1 when in fact so much has changed.
people were hired to write fake negative about rivals and were caught a few times. why would you think this has stopped?
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Posted: 2014-03-01 03:20:26
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Cheap Chinese brand?, I don't think so
Vivo, Chinese maker already launch first 2K display smartphone with super spec for your $656
http://www.phonearena.com/new[....]tery-life-get-a-review_id53320
Gionee, was last year announce first to using Snapdragon 2.5GHz
http://www.phonearena.com/new[....]n-a-monster-from-China_id53170
Oppo will announce 2K display smartphone in March
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it will depend how to choose to see it, chinese ain't always cheap.
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Posted: 2014-03-01 16:09:54
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Hardware implementations of Chinese brands can never be relied on. Even Samsung devices are extremely unreliable compared to others(and note that they too used to be the one to bring latest hardware till one year ago). Chinese devices even more unreliable.
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Posted: 2014-03-01 17:10:53
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You misinterpret me, HxH.
Of course certain Chinese brands offer flagship products whose specs outdo Sony, Samsung, Apple etc. In the same regard, I can point out Toyotas that cost more and outspec an entry level Mercedes A-class and BMW 1-series. This does not imply Toyota is thus an upscale brand on par with Mercedes/BMW.
If you average their product portfolio out, consider factors such as average price, specs, manufacturing cost, brand goodwill, discounts, depreciation, even awards received etc, then my point becomes clearer. Simply because Sony offer a home cinema system more expensive than one from Bang & Olufsen does not mean the two are on the same level. Xperia phones outdo iPhones on a number of factors *on paper*. Yet, the average consumer in the street would probably consider Apple a more "premium" brand than Sony. There are marketing surveys out there to support this assertion.
Yet the margins on the iPhone outperform every known player in the industry. Some estimate the margins for an iPhone 5 to be over 50%. Not even Samsung can match that. So the RRP for an iPhone 5S in the UK is higher than the XZ2, yet is actually cheaper to manufacture and essentially assembled with components made from Samsung, Sony, Sharp etc anyway. In my eyes this makes Apple the "cheaper" brand, but for the average consumer it is irrelevant.
What we can agree on is differences in perception. Brand perception is particularly troublesome as it is often subjective. I've worked with several Chinese firms and it is usually in the top 3 barriers they encounter. Much of it is brought on by themselves, but they are improving and most have ambitious plans. I have always stated as much.
Would you pay $20,000 for a Geely or Great Wall car? How about $40,000? $60,000? The rule of thumb is to charge as much as the market can bear (unless you are dumping stock; a different and occasionally illegal strategy). If Chinese phones could sell for as much as Vertu, they would. They can't because their brands and corporate values are still largely unknown outside China and perceived as cheap(er), regardless of the specs on paper.
Fortunately Sony has enormous brand goodwill due to their heritage (something Chinese brands lack). Sony often rank highly on innovation. It is a pity that Sony doesn't do more to promote this, but financial constraints probably limits them. If funding from VAIO has been redirected to Xperia, this is a promising sign.
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Posted: 2014-03-01 17:12:36
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