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On 2005-07-07 15:24:16, jemo wrote:
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On 2005-07-07 15:22:20, 786KBR wrote:
how and what was saddam doing to the rest of the world??? they said he was a terrorist with WMD... we all know he didnt have them...
the world would still be the same exept there would be no american soldiers dead and thousands of innocent iraqis still alive!!
my deepest condolences to those in london...
innocent iraquis were being killed under sadam dont forget, no american soldiers dead yes, but who knows how many more innocents would have been butchered under saddams regime
bush and blair has killed more people than saddam has ever killed in decades.
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Posted: 2005-07-09 13:04:52
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To be honest, as much as I find talk of politics in this thread to be a bad showing, I have to say that these terrorists really don't care about any issues other than hating the West. These people hate the Western way of life. They would use any convenient excuse to target those they see as enemies, whether it be Iraq, Palestine or American troops in Saudi Arabia. If America completely withdrew from Iraq tomorrow and pulled all of it's troops out of the Middle East and stopped aiding Israel, they would still find an excuse to attack us. They want to attack us. Don't think for a moment that they actually care about people's lives, they are quite happy to blow up innocent Iraqis as much as they are happy to blow up Americans.
The attacks on London were aimed at innocent people, not soldiers, not politicians or anyone actually connected with military or foriegn policies. They want an extreme form of Islam to dominate in the Middle East and then to spread to the rest of the world. They don't like ideas such as liberty, freedom of speech, democracy or religious freedom. They see the West as embodying all that they most despise and they try to kill innocents to spread fear and suffering.
Now I believe that there is an Iraq thread where people can continue to debate such issues. I linked to it earlier.
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Posted: 2005-07-09 13:17:04
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@upper who do it in your opinion?
This message was posted from a WAP device
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Posted: 2005-07-09 13:39:30
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On 2005-07-09 13:17:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
To be honest, as much as I find talk of politics in this thread to be a bad showing, I have to say that these terrorists really don't care about any issues other than hating the West. These people hate the Western way of life. They would use any convenient excuse to target those they see as enemies, whether it be Iraq, Palestine or American troops in Saudi Arabia. If America completely withdrew from Iraq tomorrow and pulled all of it's troops out of the Middle East and stopped aiding Israel, they would still find an excuse to attack us. They want to attack us. Don't think for a moment that they actually care about people's lives, they are quite happy to blow up innocent Iraqis as much as they are happy to blow up Americans.
The attacks on London were aimed at innocent people, not soldiers, not politicians or anyone actually connected with military or foriegn policies. They want an extreme form of Islam to dominate in the Middle East and then to spread to the rest of the world. They don't like ideas such as liberty, freedom of speech, democracy or religious freedom. They see the West as embodying all that they most despise and they try to kill innocents to spread fear and suffering.
Now I believe that there is an Iraq thread where people can continue to debate such issues. I linked to it earlier.
I don't believe these terrorists hate the West or the Western way of life; they just hate.
They do want to attack us, not because we are us, but because they are them.
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Posted: 2005-07-09 13:40:55
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@absin
Whastever their reasons, we can agree upon the end result. The attacks on London were probably inevitable, just as more attacks on other cities are probably inevitable. Our world is changing and the attacks on London have once again reminded us of the shadow that looms over us.
If one looks to the attacks on London one can see that there was no way that the authorities could have completey guarded against such an event. The very nature of these attacks makes them difficult to intercept and stop.
What is needed from all is far less rhetoric, on both sides, and more thoughful actions, which actually address the problem.
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Posted: 2005-07-09 13:46:11
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On 2005-07-09 13:17:04, scotsboyuk wrote:
To be honest, as much as I find talk of politics in this thread to be a bad showing, I have to say that these terrorists really don't care about any issues other than hating the West. These people hate the Western way of life. They would use any convenient excuse to target those they see as enemies, whether it be Iraq, Palestine or American troops in Saudi Arabia. If America completely withdrew from Iraq tomorrow and pulled all of it's troops out of the Middle East and stopped aiding Israel, they would still find an excuse to attack us. They want to attack us. Don't think for a moment that they actually care about people's lives, they are quite happy to blow up innocent Iraqis as much as they are happy to blow up Americans.
The attacks on London were aimed at innocent people, not soldiers, not politicians or anyone actually connected with military or foriegn policies. They want an extreme form of Islam to dominate in the Middle East and then to spread to the rest of the world. They don't like ideas such as liberty, freedom of speech, democracy or religious freedom. They see the West as embodying all that they most despise and they try to kill innocents to spread fear and suffering.
Now I believe that there is an Iraq thread where people can continue to debate such issues. I linked to it earlier.
Sorry mate but thats the biggest load of bullsh*t i have ever heard.If you really think these terrorists attack the west because they mearly hate the western way of life then you really do need to dig you head out of the sand.If that was the case the these terrorists or hard line muslims states would have been attacking the west long before The Iraq or Israeli conflicts...Before Israel all the muslims states lived in peace side by side until the U.K and the U.S messed with and played around with the middle east...The day the illegal state of Israel was created was the day the west brought it onto themselves the wrath of the middle east and its hardliners...Isreal has murdered hundreds upon thousands of Innocent Men,Women and Children since the creation Israel...Mostly with American made weapons and funding.That is why these So called terrorists come onto our land to get revenge not because our way life...Its called an "eye for an eye" ..You think we can send our vast armies onto their sovereign land break U.N resolutions and Murder their people and destroy their way of life...and you want them to love us....Wake up for F*cks sake!!..Its precisely this careless attitude we have to towards the muslim world that now this war has now come to our own doorsteps...You say they Kill innocent civilians with no remorse or regret what do you think our soildiers do over there?...hand out goody bags?..well they do only after shooting dead a few here and there all in the name peace and order...We in the west have to undertand that the muslim world works differently from us and we cannot impose our way of life onto them...Islam works differently to most other religions and the western way is simply incompatible with theirs..The bottom line is before i go one forever is that if you going to pick a unjust fight with someone then expect to be hit back!
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Posted: 2005-07-09 13:53:11
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On 2005-07-09 13:39:30, Ayush wrote:
@upper who do it in your opinion?
This message was posted from a WAP device
i dont want to tell you in public so i will pm you later when im free.
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Posted: 2005-07-09 13:54:12
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@axxxr
There really is no need to use bad language and I don't really think this particualr thread is appropriate for such intense debate.
You have your opinions and that is fine. Having studied the history of this particualr subject for a number of years I am familiar with the issues and themes involved. The terrorists didn't attack the West before because the West was the lesser of two evils. Communism was a bigger threat to them than the West, indeed the West supported them. Now that their greatest foe is gone they turn to others. The history of the subject is easy to research and, with respect, your points seem to indicate either a deep seated bias or a lack of familiarity with that history.
I have absolutely no interest in debating any of these issues in this thread (or any other thread for that matter) and I do apologise to everyone for my part in the recent off-topic course of this thread.
Once again, there is a thread dealing with politico-religious issues, which you can find
here.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2005-07-09 13:20 ]
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:07:49
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All I know is that the Middle East has been a problem for the last 2,000 years at least, they were problems in that area in Biblical times, there were the crusades in that area in the 11/12th etc. centuries, and the current troubles.
And I wondered how long before the consipiracy theories started, we've already gone one person with something so 'secret' he can't post it - let me guess, it's the British secret service/CIA/the French?
I agree with scotsboy, this has gone a bit too far off topic, it is getting too political!
And degenerating into a flame war - best stop now, eh, before it gets locked?
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:21:26
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bush and blair has killed more people than saddam has ever killed in decades.
i think the families of the 250,000 kurds who were killed by saddams regiem may disagree with that statement
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:22:25
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