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On 2006-02-08 08:00:01, 786KBR wrote:
Then who the hell is??
So-called Muslims who think killing, or threatening to kill, people is a legitimate way to protest.
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Posted: 2006-02-08 08:02:22
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On 2006-02-08 08:02:22, absinthebri wrote:
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On 2006-02-08 08:00:01, 786KBR wrote:
Then who the hell is??
So-called Muslims who think killing, or threatening to kill, people is a legitimate way to protest.
If you kick someone in the mouth, expect to get the same!!!
All protests get violent if they not controled!!! Its the governments of the respected countries that are to blame for the burning of embassies, they allowed it to go that far, not protesters! All protesters threaten in some way or the other!
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Posted: 2006-02-08 08:10:13
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You know, when I set fire to something, I'm responsible for my actions. I can choose to set a fire, or I can choose not to.
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Posted: 2006-02-08 08:12:32
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You know protester protest to make themselve heard!!
They didnt find the petrol bombs on the street now did they!
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Posted: 2006-02-08 08:17:54
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On 2006-02-08 08:10:13, 786KBR wrote:
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On 2006-02-08 08:02:22, absinthebri wrote:
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On 2006-02-08 08:00:01, 786KBR wrote:
Then who the hell is??
So-called Muslims who think killing, or threatening to kill, people is a legitimate way to protest.
If you kick someone in the mouth, expect to get the same!!!
All protests get violent if they not controled!!! Its the governments of the respected countries that are to blame for the burning of embassies, they allowed it to go that far, not protesters! All protesters threaten in some way or the other!
I guess muslims dont practice the same 'turn the other cheek' mentaliity of the christians then.
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Posted: 2006-02-08 08:19:38
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On 2006-02-08 08:17:54, 786KBR wrote:
You know protester protest to make themselve heard!!
They didnt find the petrol bombs on the street now did they!
You're confusing 'protestors' with 'criminals'.
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Posted: 2006-02-08 08:19:43
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Quote:On 2006-02-08 08:00:01, 786KBR wrote:
Then who the hell is??
could it possibly be.........the ones whipping people into a frenzy, burning buildings, and getting innocents killed?
just a thought.
@axxxr: that's the story i posted about earlier, although via a different source. the difference is that the iranian response is state sanctioned and made purely out of spite, rather than as an attempt to prompt debate on a particular issue. denmark did
not make a mistake. one newspaper editor took it upon himself to highlight a polarising issue he thought worthy of open and forthright discussion.
i also doubt we'll see hordes of angry jews storming iranian embassies around the world, burning buildings and generally being a public menace.
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On 2006-02-08 01:20:36, soulframe wrote:
Here's a bit of education for the non muslims in this thread on why the cartoons are not just a trivial matter:
http://www.amrkhaled.net/articles/articles1244.html
i understand the argument that article and others here are trying to make, i really do, but i just don't buy it for a number of reasons:
1. the inherent assumption that a muslim's love and respect for allah and mohammed or greater than the love and respect a non-muslim has for their religious icons or principles.
2. the inherent assumption that a muslim's love and respect for allah and mohammed or greater than the love and respect a westerner has for their sacrosanct right of free speech (especially in their own country) or any other right of democratic society.
3. the inherent assumption that it is the west that must change to accommodate islam because islam is somehow a special case and it's principles more important than any others (see points 1 and 2).
for me, that article lost the argument outright with two statements:
"...due to the below-average quality of practical application of freedom of speech, Muslims have a vague understanding of the concept of respecting freedom of speech."
"The West understands very well the freedom of speech (which we appreciate) but it does not understand Islamic values, such as dignifying the Prophet (SAWS) and other Islamic sanctities."
if we understand freedom of speech so much better(a concept you assert that you "respect, appraise, and need"), why then can you not accept that it is more important in this case? i suspect it's because of points 1 and 2.
a couple of other points i have real issues with:
"This offense does not aim at the Prophet (SAWS) alone, but rather to one billion, two hundred thousand Muslims; or rather to all humanity."
in this one sentence he has shown that he is either incapable of understanding, or refuses to acknowledge, the real intention behind the publication of the cartoons.
"People around the world are demanding an international law that protects the dignity of this great Prophet."
good luck with china. i mean seriously...this is so patently absurd it defies belief. no non-islamic state would agree to such a thing.
"We will not stop our protests until our Prophet regains the dignity he duly deserves as our great leader. "
if the Prophet is such a hallowed persona, how is it even possible that even one iota of his dignity was compromised by some fairly tame (by western journalistic standards) cartoons drawn and published by people who do not believe in him? it is the activities of certain of his followers that are really costing him dignity.
"O West, I affirm that Allah’s Messenger (SAWS) is dearer to all Muslims than their own parents. O West, Allah’s Messenger (SAWS) is dearer to us, Muslims, than our children and grandchildren. O West, Allah’s Messenger (SAWS) is dearer to us than our money, dearer to us than our own selves. He is dearer to us than our own countries."
O Islam, I affirm that Free Speech is dearer to all Westerners than their own parents. O Islam, Free Speech is dearer to us, Westerners, than our children and grandchildren. O Islam, Free Speech is dearer to us than our money, dearer to us than our own selves. It is dearer to us than our own countries.
do not belittle the sincerity of western beliefs and principles. the real question now is why is the muslim world, and iran in particular, so intent on keeping this issue at boiling point so long after it should have been over months ago?
join the dots - Denmark is now a member of the UN Security Council, about to decide what to do about Iran's nuclear program.
_________________
Whomsoever you see in distress, recognize in him a fellow man
Gelfen's special place where nobody talks to him anymore 
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2006-02-08 07:43 ]
[ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2006-02-08 07:44 ]
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Posted: 2006-02-08 08:20:35
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a few reactions:
Denmark: Love it or Leave it - Danish Muslims protest against Imams
Moscow Museum to exhibit Mohammed Cartoons
The People of Norway and Denmark: We Are Sorry
from
this provocative blog entry:
"If Chinese radicals were ransacking Western embassies because of a cartoon, and were backed by the Chinese government, we would be outraged, demanding apologies, severing relations, and so on. But when Muslims do it, backed by Islamist governments, we are supposed to take it on the chin, to "respect" their religious traditions, issue mealy-mouthed statements, etc. In many ways, this is the real offense: treating Muslims as if their violation of global norms, and thralldom to medieval conceptions of politics and religion, were somehow acceptable. They are not acceptable."
among other things
this BBC article explains how the escalation of this issue can be directly traced to danish imams who
lied to other islamic nations.
_________________
Whomsoever you see in distress, recognize in him a fellow man
Gelfen's special place where nobody talks to him anymore [ This Message was edited by: gelfen on 2006-02-08 07:48 ]
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Posted: 2006-02-08 08:39:43
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On 2006-02-08 08:19:43, absinthebri wrote:
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On 2006-02-08 08:17:54, 786KBR wrote:
You know protester protest to make themselve heard!!
They didnt find the petrol bombs on the street now did they!
You're confusing 'protestors' with 'criminals'.
No you are!!
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Posted: 2006-02-08 08:49:58
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On 2006-02-08 07:33:14, axxxr wrote:
Sammy_boy i would'nt call it a childish matter to incite hatred towards someone else's religion,
Neither would I, but as has been stated several times before the cartoons wer enot published in a deliberate attempt to attack Islam. Continually saying that they were doesn't make it any truer.
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Iran is basically doing the right thing by checking the worlds reaction to freedom of speech under the banner of which these Islamphobic cartoons were published.
Are they doing it because they actually believe in freedom of speech or are they doing it out of revenge? Does the Iranian government support this idea? If so I presume that their new found commitment to freedom of speech will extend to allowing Iranians who do not agree with their government to voice their opinions and protest freely without fear of reprisal.
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Only if it was so easy to put all of this behind us,Denmark has made the biggest mistake in its history i think,and i think you may be right many more lives may be lost still...things are not calming down by the looks of things..Appologies are coming thick and fast from the Danes but its to little to late.
The Danes have made no mistake, as gelfen said the mistake wa son the part of one Danish newspaper.
I think where the mistake has been made is by Islamic extremists who are trying to make this situation worse. All they will do is help to polarise world opinion against Islam and play into the hands of those who seek to turn people against Islam.
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Posted: 2006-02-08 09:04:07
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