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On 2005-07-09 14:22:25, slattery69 wrote:
bush and blair has killed more people than saddam has ever killed in decades.
i think the families of the 250,000 kurds who were killed by saddams regiem may disagree with that statement
Where did you get the figure of 250,000 from?
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:26:41
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On 2005-07-09 14:07:49, scotsboyuk wrote:
@axxxr
There really is no need to use bad language and I don't really think this particualr thread is appropriate for such intense debate.
You have your opinions and that is fine. Having studied the history of this particualr subject for a number of years I am familiar with the issues and themes involved. The terrorists didn't attack the West before because the West was the lesser of two evils. Communism was a bigger threat to them than the West, indeed the West supported them. Now that their greatest foe is gone they turn to others. The history of the subject is easy to research and, with respect, your points seem to indicate either a deep seated bias or a lack of familiarity with that history.
I have absolutely no interest in debating any of these issues in this thread (or any other thread for that matter) and I do apologise to everyone for my part in the recent off-topic course of this thread.
Once again, there is a thread dealing with politico-religious issue, which you can find
here.
I rarely use bad language but this subject really frustrates me because we in the west blame muslims and these countries and their religion for the all the problems that we are resonsible for..everything that is happening today is our own doing and not theirs...
I to do not want to make this thread into a political debate but if your going to make such unfair statements then you should expect a reply.
I don't think you need to be a genius to undertsand and know the history of the Middle east...even a fool knows how Israel was reated and dare i say who started the gulf wars...We have been seeing the histoy of the middle east being played out on the media day after day and has been doing so for the last 15 years...so you dont need a masters in political history to know this.
The so called terrorists did'nt attack us before is not because of the exsistence of communism its because we did'nt choose to pick a fight with them before..Why is it so difficult to understand such an easy for point?..Its baffles me how people blame these muslim states for the problems which mostly america has created...Whatever the situation we in the west better learn not poke our nose in mainly muslim states otherwise i fear we may have a situation we can no longer controle.
_________________
WARNING TO JAMBA
ONLY IF LIFE WAS THIS PERFECT[ This Message was edited by: axxxr on 2005-07-09 13:35 ]
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:33:05
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On 2005-07-09 14:26:41, absinthebri wrote:
Quote:
On 2005-07-09 14:22:25, slattery69 wrote:
bush and blair has killed more people than saddam has ever killed in decades.
i think the families of the 250,000 kurds who were killed by saddams regiem may disagree with that statement
Where did you get the figure of 250,000 from?
it was from the united nations.
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:39:48
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@ scotsboyuk
Mate unfortunaltey neither of are mods (afaik) so as much we'd like people to stick to the topic at hand, it ain't gonna happen.
@ axxxr
People like you and me are labeled as nuts or conspiracy theorists, because the the majority of the planet have been brainwashed into believing those in power have no 'agenda' or alterior motive and that the media reports the 'truth'. Let the those who think they know it all beleive what they want to beleive. We try to educate them, get them open their eyes, read between the lines, but they won't listen. We should leave them to their fate, God please forgive them for their naivety and ignorance.
Yet again I totally agree with you mate but please for the respect of other users, lets continue this in another thread.
I think you should read the following:
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-[....]cy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=249
and
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-[....]full_story.asp?service_id=9212
@upper
I know what your talking about and you should read the following:
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-[....]full_story.asp?service_id=9212
P.s. sorry for all the spelling mistakes!
_________________
I've discovered the cure for hangovers! Don't drink!
[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2005-07-09 13:44 ]
[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2005-07-09 13:45 ]
[ This Message was edited by: soulframe on 2005-07-09 13:45 ]
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:43:35
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On 2005-07-09 14:22:25, slattery69 wrote:
i think the families of the 250,000 kurds who were killed by saddams regiem may disagree with that statement
So that make it ok then for Bush & blair to go an murder 100,000's of innocent iraqis then does it?...To any sensible man this would seem like they were as bad as Saddam.
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:45:01
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@axxxr
You will see from my earlier posts that I at no time blame any Muslim state nor do I seek to assign blame to any particualr religion or country. As I said, you are entitled to your opinions. As a historian I have to say that your statements seem to subectively ignore certain aspects of the history of this issue, which is why I would urge you to research the issue from both sides, but that is just my professional opinion.
As I have previously stated, I am not interested in debating this issue and quite frankly I don't know why it is being debated by anyone on a mobile phone website. There are dedicated political and/or religious forums on the internet that would probably have dedicated areas for such debate. I daresay that you, and anyone else wishing to discuss such matters, would probably find people wishing to take up such a debate there.
There is one that I am currently a member of, which you may like to take a look at. You can find it
here.
Can this thread now be allowed to return to its original purpose of discussing the events in London?
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:45:18
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On 2005-07-09 14:45:01, axxxr wrote:
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On 2005-07-09 14:22:25, slattery69 wrote:
i think the families of the 250,000 kurds who were killed by saddams regiem may disagree with that statement
So that make it ok then for Bush & blair to go an murder 100,000's of innocent iraqis then does it?...To any sensible man this would seem like they were as bad as Saddam.
are you unable to read where did i say that they where not a bad please point it out. all i was doing was bring some balance to it. people make it sound like the west just decided to bomb saddams happy little paridise were everyone was happy and there were no problems.
i have said many time i did nt agree with the war on iraq however neither did i agree with the way saddam treat his people. while he lived in gold palaces and drove around in the best western cars money could buy . i dislike any place were people do not have the freedom to chose who governs them or be able to speak freely.
this thread like many others on esato wouldnt be possible in certain parts of the world and that i find extremly sad
[ This Message was edited by: slattery69 on 2005-07-09 13:59 ]
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:52:39
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On 2005-07-09 14:45:18, scotsboyuk wrote:
@axxxr
As a historian I have to say that your statements seem to subectively ignore certain aspects of the history of this issue, which is why I would urge you to research the issue from both sides, but that is just my professional opinion.
What aspects might they be then i dare ask?...The fact that we started a illegle war with Iraq which was not sanctioned by the U.N and that this whole war was based on Lies and Deceit i.e: Fake Dosier,No WMD's,45 mins attack warning..Murdering their people for what exactly??...removing 1 man saddam??.I think that is a pretty solid and fair reason for the Iraqi's to attack us don't you think?
_________________
WARNING TO JAMBA
ONLY IF LIFE WAS THIS PERFECT[ This Message was edited by: axxxr on 2005-07-09 13:58 ]
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Posted: 2005-07-09 14:56:18
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@axxxr
As I have said on two previous occassions in this thread, I am not going to debate the matter with you. First of all this thread is not the place for it and the author of the thread has specifically requested that people try to stay on-topic plus there is the fact that I have absolutely no interest in debating the issue anyway.
You should follow the link I posted earlier, there are people on that forum who will be quite happy to debate this with you.
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Posted: 2005-07-09 15:04:02
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Thats fine and understandable that you no longer want to debate this here...However i was just trying to get into the finer details of how and what was responsible for the attacks in london.
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Posted: 2005-07-09 15:09:05
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