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Comparing the Pureview to iPhone 5 is unfair because its so much better than anything else. Its better to compare a Lumia to iPhone and co. and even then the Nokia is probably the best. Lets face it, the Pureview will spank anything out there.
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Posted: 2012-09-30 00:08:19
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On 2012-09-29 23:16:27, false_morel wrote:
The samples you quoted above were about extremely dim scapes!! Nowhere close the photo you shot above..
true, and they were probably hand held.. so, we will have to wait and see. I know that holding the shutter open for longer would let more light in, but what do you do with all the noise that comes with it, and also any moving objects ? Even a boat on a dock would be moving from the water beneath it, so that would effect the sharpness of the image..
Don't forget that the 920 still shoots at 1.4 micron pixels, and no matter what they do on the software side, there is not much they can do to get rid of the noise without messing up all the detail.. the current BSI technology doesn't really compensate for all that.
And I know that you tested live, so I will take your word on it for now
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2012-09-29 23:20 ]
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Posted: 2012-09-30 00:18:03
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On 2012-09-30 00:18:03, cu015170 wrote:
true, and they were probably hand held.. so, we will have to wait and see.
Yes exactly.. This is the key point of the 920.. This is the phone's biggest trick! Just point and shoot at 1 second!
And a quick question here, how slow could the 808 get hand held?!
I know that holding the shutter open for longer would let more light in, but what do you do with all the noise that comes with it,
This is not a problem.. Usually with longer shutter speeds, noise comes out due to the sensor heating up..
But at 1 second this is a no issue.. Usually this starts to get out of control beyond the 1 to 2 seconds mark..
And usually this noise is different to high ISO noise.. And is hence dealth with differently..
Also, in such scenarios to achieve best result, one has to go with the best balance of SS and ISO. Neither go for too long SSs nor too high ISOs.. If possible of course.. But as a rule of thumb, up till 1 second exposure is always preferred over boosting up the ISO..
and also any moving objects ? Even a boat on a dock would be moving from the water beneath it, so that would effect the sharpness of the image..
This is of course the 920's weakness.. When I asked the Nokia rep about the flash, he told me that with the 920 one needs no flash.. Well not exactly true!
For night portraits and scapes this applies.. But for photos where the subject is moving, one needs to freeze the action with a flash! Kids at home, pets, at a party, etc..
As to a boat moving at a dock, well this is beyond a smartphone's capability imo! The only solution in such situation is to boost the ISO. As neither flash nor SS would do it.
The 808 would then make better results than the 920, but both useless imo!
And I know that you tested live, so I will take your word on it for now
Thanks. I was really impressed by the 920!
And am not impressed with Joire's samples she took at Tampere, Finland!
Those were really extreme situations when one either needs much longer shutter speeds using a high-end DSLR, or boost the ISO pretty high.. The 920 is meant to be used at night, but also with some lights available and not completely dim! Like those photos shot in the park Nokia showed..
[ This Message was edited by: false_morel on 2012-09-30 00:25 ]
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Posted: 2012-09-30 01:24:24
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Thanks for explaining the noise/exposure deal.. i didn't know that around the 1 second mark things can be done differently.
The 808 can go up to 2.6 secs I think .. you have set the iso to 50 and switch on the mechanical ND filter on.
Here is round 2, this time I tested the N8 for a better reference point for the Iphone 5.
Full auto on all 3. Note the file sizes.. clear indication at what pureview does. Before anyone says anything about the resolution, yes, the 808 shoots in 5Mpix @ 85% jpeg compression in auto mode. The N8 is with a custom rom, so it shoots at 95% jpeg compression, and the iphone 5 also shoots in 95% jpeg compression, and 8Mpix
N8
iPhone 5
808
getting darker
N8 (night mode)
iPhone 5 .. auto, there is no other way
808 (8Mpix manual, pureview, 800 iso, 95% jpeg)
even darker..
N8 (night mode)
iphone 5
808 (8Mpix pureview @ 800 iso, 95% jpeg)
808 (5Mpix pureview @ 800 iso, 95% jpeg)
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2012-09-30 04:05 ]
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Posted: 2012-09-30 04:59:50
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On 2012-09-30 04:59:50, cu015170 wrote:
The 808 can go up to 2.6 secs I think .. you have set the iso to 50 and switch on the mechanical ND filter on.
This is impressive. Will have to try that. As far as I remember from playing with the phone, there is an option for this. Like a switch in the custom mode. Right? One just set it on it goes automatically to ISO 50, long SS, and ND filter..
Or are there more tweaking possibilites?
But I meant hand held. How slow usually it goes? The N8 used to go as far as 1/5s in nightmode.. Although one needs steady hands for this.. But usually it went to 1/8s when needed most of the times.
Is it the same with the 808?
Here is round 2, this time I tested the N8 for a better reference point for the Iphone 5.
The purple cast from the N8 is disturbing! It used to come out with such funny white balances with me as well. Usually in tricky light situations but not all the time..
Could you share the settings each phone went with for each of these three scenarios?
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Posted: 2012-09-30 11:04:13
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ya I don't know why it did that.. maybe its that new custom rom I put on it, I dunno.
And what do you mean about the settings ? The N8 was in auto mode for the first pic, and then night mode for the other two. The 808 was in auto for the first, and then manual for the next two.. i wrote the settings for it on top of the pics. The iphone 5 has no settings ..
Anyway, this was for low light, now I will try to test them in sunny conditions. Its just that, what I saw in low light, doesn't bond well for sunsets/sunrises for the iPhone 5..
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Posted: 2012-09-30 17:42:49
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On 2012-09-30 17:42:49, cu015170 wrote:
ya I don't know why it did that.. maybe its that new custom rom I put on it, I dunno.
Could be.. It'll be clearer with further comparisons..
Problem is with JPEGs one doesn't have much control over white balance in post processing.. In raws everything is fully adjustable and with no loss in quality..
And what do you mean about the settings ? The N8 was in auto mode for the first pic, and then night mode for the other two. The 808 was in auto for the first, and then manual for the next two.. i wrote the settings for it on top of the pics. The iphone 5 has no settings ..
I meant exposure setting (Aperture, SS, ISO).. My bad, I should have been clearer there. There are no Exifs for the photos that's why..
As to Aperture I think it's 2.8 for the N8, and 2.4 for each of the 808 and iP5, right?
And 35mm equivalent focal length, is 28mm for the N8, 32mm for the iPhone and 26mm for the 808??
Anyway, this was for low light, now I will try to test them in sunny conditions. Its just that, what I saw in low light, doesn't bond well for sunsets/sunrises for the iPhone 5..
Yes bring more comparisons please.. They're just great..
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Posted: 2012-09-30 21:05:13
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The exif should be intact if you download the files from this folder:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=424646B5863880EB!2389
I think you are spot on for the aperture and the focal length.
I am collecting daylight shots.. I should have enough for a shoot out soon
Here is a quick browser test between the 808 and iPhone 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kR7CSAIHtw
and also vs. flash test between these
Original files:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?resid=424646B5863880EB!2494
[img]
[/img]
Canon ixus 220
Nokia 808 PureView
Samsung Galaxy S3
HTC One X
Apple iPhone 4S
Nokia N8
[ This Message was edited by: cu015170 on 2012-10-01 08:19 ]
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Posted: 2012-10-01 09:06:03
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^ awesome comparison. What's surprising is the poor performance of N8 with xenon flash. Of course it's better than phones with LED flash, but PureView 808 manages so much better with same exposure and ISO. I guess it means 808 has also a pretty much powerful xenon flash. Would be cool to see how Lumia 920 would perform here
[ This Message was edited by: admad on 2012-10-01 09:33 ]
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Posted: 2012-10-01 10:33:28
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I'm literally stunned by the 808's flash performance!! This is mind blowing!!
It hits better white balance thsn the Canon which went on the bluish side, typical mistake for some cameras with Xenon.
808 also delivered better detail and noise levels! Unbelievable!
And one can see the vast improvement from the N8 Nokia have made! Hats off for Nokia there. This is the first Xenon module on par with stand alone compacts if not better than some! Amazing job!
As to the rest, the iPhone is frustratingly poor! The GSIII may seem better at first due to the brighter image in comparison to the N8, but it's a clear digital manipulation by Samsung leading to some unacceptable noise and banding artifacts! And skewed color representation as well. Out of the LED bunch, HTC is by far the best approach, albeit not a usable result due to extreme conditions.
The 808 is in a world of its own really! The 920 will only beat it in video mode due the stabilisation which I'd take at any given day over a slight advantage in quality. And for now in low light non-flash situations.
@ cu015170
It'd be highly appreciated if you compare the 808 to the rest of the bunch on both full manual tipoded long exposure mode and also automated mode (scenes mode and full automatic)..
It's important to see how the 808 compares to the others hand held as this is what matters for a smartphone at the end. And also compare those results to a long exposure one by the 808.
And I think for other phones and for the 808 on automated modes, better to shoot hand held. It'd leads to more realistic results.
If possible of course..
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Posted: 2012-10-02 00:56:59
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