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mib1800
Ahh sheeesh kebab!
You say that my post is like "I feel SE is better and that is why it is better" and those things you mentioned to convince you are things I have mentioned and other people have mentioned again and again but you always tend to overlook our points and manage to enter the smartphone market instead of giving us really good points why Nokia has an edge above Sony Ericsson. Sales figures is the only edge Nokia has as far as I can see and it seems you are aware of that too because you always mention it.


Do you really expect people to buy a Nokia phone just because it is a smartphone? Don't forget what mainstream customers want. They want as good camera ass possible, they want as good display as possible and they also want a good looking design as possible in one package for lowest price as possible and Nokia fails in almost everything here.

What are the arguments why mainstream people would prefer a smartphone? Is it because you can install programmes? What kind of programmes is that?
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Posted: 2004-10-12 12:11:06
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@mib1800

You have lost me completely. I do not get your point of what exactly you want to prove. What does that mean, "having an edge over"?

Quality for price?
Compatbility?
Available programs?
Market share?
Technologically advanced?

Many of these elements are contradictory (e.g. technologically advanced and available software, because new technology has'nt had the same time for developers to work out software).

The whole discussion seems like the classic windows vs. Mac vs. Linux issues. It just has no point in trying to find a "winner".

It all depends on what you need.
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Posted: 2004-10-12 12:29:09
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mib1800: release firmware upgrades for their phones, giving them a far longer life. OK, look at the p800/p900/p910. There was nearly a year between each model, and each had significant improvements from the last. Look at Nokia, a new model every four months that is, in actual fact, the same phone in a slightly different cheap plastic casing. Who is providing more value for money? You say the Nokia 6230 is newer and fresher than the k700. Look at it. It doesnt look half as good, it has a tiny screen, poor video playback, and is cheap and plasticky, the joystick (or pad) is poorly designed, nowhere as good as the k700 stick. Is that better than the k700? I dont think so, the k700 was out for a while before the 6230 and its still a better phone in most departments (mmc aside), proving once again the superior technological edge has over nokia. As for your smartphone and series 60 comments, i defy nokia to produce a smartphone that come close to the p910. Their previous entries into the smartphone world have been very buggy, not very "smart", and poorly designed. They have simply not sold many, aside from the 6600, and make no bones about it, the people that bought that were in the majority teenage kids who wanted something to show off to their mates to, not business users. And given their track record with design, they will need to release another 3 models before they get it right, and by that time everyone else will have moved on anyway.

_________________
Hello, Scroto!

987 green bottles hanging on the wall...

[ This Message was edited by: methylated_spirit on 2004-10-12 13:05 ]
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Posted: 2004-10-12 14:02:27
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@mckinley
u say many points have been presented by SE fans. lets take a good sample by looking at point presented by you:-
"...want as good camera ass possible, they want as good display as possible and they also want a good looking design as possible in one package for lowest price as possible and Nokia fails in almost everything here"

can u provide some non-rhetoric (or feelings) arguments how Nokia failed in all these?? (at the same time maybe show with fact how SE triumphs here)

@Dela
there are many aspects. see those that i hv presented. pls note it is not my view that Nokia triumphs over SE in all aspects (unlike some SE fans here who think Nokia is a lame duck).


@methylated_spirit:
ur points on P*** upgrade has a high degree of hypocrisy in it (i.e. ok for SE but not OK for Nokia). T610 to T630: addition of better screen. Nk6610 to 6610i : addtion of camera. So explain to me how is this different.

i'm not saying 6230 now. I am saying the upgrade to 6230 in a few months. Assuming SE does not upgrade K700, by that time it would hv look dated to customers.


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i'll answer all ur smartphone rebuttals here.

1. I am not saying all mainstream customers will buy smartphone. It just add this factor into buying consideration (i.e. Nokia has this but the other don't). I think it is very naive to think that buyers are tech-inept and the addition of smartphone capability would not make a difference.

2. symbian has reported that unit licensed has increased over 80% from last year. Expected some 10-12million unit this year. Nokia share would be 8-10 million units. This is about 7% of Nokia volume (or 30% of SE volume). And this figure is expected to continue to go up exponentially. So phones like 6600/7610 would hv sold very well indeed.

You can belittle this levelling down smartphone strategy of Nokia. But fact is showing sales in this segment is skyrocketing.

3. Nokia is coming out with 7710 to match P*** series. SE (unlike Samsung/Panasonic/Siemens) still hv no answer to Nokia Series 60.

Anyway SE P*** (from EMEA figure) doesnt seems to be doing well at all.


edit: methylated_spirit: software part of P*** is not SE technology and belong to symbian and we know who owns a large part of symbian. maybe SE should try and come out with its own smartphone instead - like Nokia.


[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2004-10-13 04:58 ]
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Posted: 2004-10-13 05:44:42
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OK so now you are saying your talking about the 6230 replacement ahhh now i understand. You twonk! Do you know any spec for it? Do you know if they will even make a 6230 replacement? Do you want to continue by saying "ah, but the next nokia phone will have this and that..." What are you on about? What about the here and now? Ignoring the facts???? Im sick of your crap.

edit: Yeah maybe should make their own smartphone...You ARSE! what are you on about...arent the p800,p900,p910 smartphones, made by

Unless you are referring to the software part - why develop their own when they are producing one of the finest smartphones around? Do nokia have a touchscreen smartphone with 262,000 colour screen, handwriting recognition, and a qwerty keyboard? Do the have anything comparable? Do they? The pxxx series has been around for a while now, and nokia still dont have any equivalent in direct competition on the market.



[ This Message was edited by: methylated_spirit on 2004-10-13 10:07 ]
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Posted: 2004-10-13 10:54:36
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@methylated_spirit

thanks a lot for showing me your uncivilised side. I hope u r not representative of SE fans here.

go and read my post until u understand. I hv used word "upgrade" and used the letter "i" as in 6230i. I am just describing in the context u brought up that Nokia is ripping its customers off by renewing model often. My response is that with more models renewal, u get more advantage as consumers like a fresher look. The model in comparison can be 6230i or another one in the same category.

on ur second comment go and read again. You don't hv much comprehension to understand at all. I am refering to the software part when saying SE should "come out with their smartphone".

edit: SE also do not hv any like phone like Series60 or communicator series

[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2004-10-13 11:03 ]

[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2004-10-13 11:03 ]
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Posted: 2004-10-13 11:59:38
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Quote:
On 2004-10-13 10:54:36, methylated_spirit wrote:
edit: Yeah maybe should make their own smartphone...You ARSE! what are you on about...arent the p800,p900,p910 smartphones, made by

Unless you are referring to the software part - why develop their own when they are producing one of the finest smartphones around? Do nokia have a touchscreen smartphone with 262,000 colour screen, handwriting recognition, and a qwerty keyboard? Do the have anything comparable? Do they? The pxxx series has been around for a while now, and nokia still dont have any equivalent in direct competition on the market.



I believe i had this to say on the smartphone issue.

Do you seriously believe the 6230i will haveany real improvement other than firmware? release firmware updates, not entirely new phones.

[ This Message was edited by: methylated_spirit on 2004-10-13 11:03 ]
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Posted: 2004-10-13 12:02:26
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@all

The problem with this debate is that we still haven't defined what we mean when we talk about an 'edge'. Perhaps it would be wise to break down any points made in terms of technology, marketing and style; these seem to be the most pertinent areas to this debate.

@mib1800

You do place a great deal of emphasis on smartphones and their future effects on the mobile phone market, but I think it is important that we take smartphones in perspective. I agree with your comment that customers should not be regarded as technologicaly inept, but I would like to add that we should not also regard customers as technologicaly motivated. By this I mean that the vast majority of customers seem to want a mobile phone with certain features as standard e.g. SMS, Camera, MMS, colour screen, good battery life, etc.
Smartphones are a completely different issue when it comes to discussing mobile phones, they introduce many new benefits for customers, but also many new problems too. In forecasting future mobile trends we should take into account the fact that customers tend not to buy anything they cannot understand and operate relatively easily. Current sales of smartphones may very well represent the initial uptake rather than long term 'exponential' growth. If this is the case then the number of models available will be become a secondary consideration as manufacturers will be forced to concentrate on making sure those models are easy to use.
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Posted: 2004-10-13 17:28:07
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i think scotsboy has called it right what do we mean by edge. as both companies have edges in different areas.
smartphones will grow but probably wont over take sales of non smartphones as many users just like to sms and take calls
i guess even the camera is redundent for a lot of people a mms is quite expensive.
i have no affinity to any brand so am trying to stay objective in this thread.
nokia make some nice phones as do se. nokia have some wierd designs but i like the fact they are trying to do something different, se are very conservative which i find dull but still ok
se really try to push the envolope on there phones with technology often long in advance of what the consumer wants.
i often feel nokia time technology in phones better in terms of the mass market. ie bluetooth there just starting to use it as a standard years after se but the mass market is only reacting to bluetooth at this time.
yes nokia do release a lot of similar phones but you only have to buy 1 and se could do with more phones in there range.
both companies in my opinon release phones with minor upgrades as do all companies its just business so doenst bother me and i ve yet to see a mobile released without problems so both are equally bad at this.
after this its always gonna come down to weather your a brand buyer or a phone buyer. if your a brand buyer then your gonna like what you like whatever anyone says
but at least it makes for good debate
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Posted: 2004-10-13 18:26:16
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Well when I started this thread I was aiming at comments about and nokia’s technology. Not who sells the most or has the most money.
I think its obvious nokia sells the most (at the moment ).
But imo are producing the more technology advance handsets and accessories (and online update) to date.

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Posted: 2004-10-13 18:34:45
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