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@Wintermute
i disagree about iphone example and even slightly bigger devices - it's not borderline for for most small people with short pants, unless you are a small kid or baby that shouldn't carry a cellphone anyway, just for radiation safety alone. anyway, it can't be compared to z ultra size. z ultra arrived for
true borderline for most people that when you sit it starts to become really uncomfortable. with 7" compromising about this with start to become impossible for everyone.
because putting myself in sony's shoes, i see no point in going 0.3" more to make difference and z ultra already got bad criticism from reviewers for not having identity and i tend to agree, it's more meaningful going to 7".
about numbers, it's ok to have opinion based on a healthy common sense. sometimes the answers are too simple. i didn't claim anything though.
obviously i mean the "flagship" term that is agreed and recognized by anyone in the industry, at least in the last few years. z ultra does not have all the characteristics of a flagship, though it's close. flagship = a high end device with no compromises on common hardware and quality. anyone WILL tell you that the z ultra is not a flagship just for that reason alone. it's a fact that recognition is made for what is a flagship. this is obviously not math, sure, but it does not need to be 100% absolute to be a term. z ultra is not a flagship by the industry standard. you can call it a flagship by your personal standard, but then, you can call anything what you want like i can.
i totally agree that sony's goal is to go with one flagship each year and i wrote my opinion about this here a long time ago and most if not all here tend to agree. we already talked about this here many times. the reason (or one of) that sony go with 2 flagships each year is because the japanese consumer demands it. i'm sure there is other important business reasons to do it behind the curtains. go figure. nobody dig enough to fully understand why. but anyway, the point i made is that in this strategy (since 2011) the z ultra better announced alone and i made reasons why it's better then announcing it together with z at IFA. that's all. there are also good reasons for annoucing a device at IFA but i think that they are not as strong. againm you don't have to agree. i made my point.
i'm sorry if i sounded or sound rude or something. not my intention. it's nice finding here people like you who like to chat about sony and xperia products and likes the brand and it's fun chatting here about it. if we all agreed 100% on everything then the world would be boring!
i agree with a lot of the things you said.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-24 09:28 ]
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Posted: 2014-03-24 10:18:06
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Numerous essays here......
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Posted: 2014-03-24 15:24:36
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Now I know how English professors feel when they check exams.
[ This Message was edited by: itsjustJOH on 2014-03-24 14:55 ]
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Posted: 2014-03-24 15:55:33
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I think your definition of flagship should perhaps be slightly modified.
Rather than being a 'no compromise handset' which actually means different things to different people e.g. 6.4" screen is no compromise if you want the biggest screen in a handset form factor for others it is a compromise on comfort.
A flagship by definition is the carrier of the flag i.e. what the company sees as it's brand/range/fleet defining device.
In this case the Z, Z1, Z2... Zn are flagships. Everything else is a variant (Tablet, Ultra, Compact, S, C or whatever). This is also backed up by the marketing budget assigned to each device.
Not arguing, just trying to de-murk the waters.
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On the point of screen size, 6.44" is just right. They should stick with it. To me, 7" tablets have always been neither here nor there. 6.44" as a handset is not a bad segment, but no-one expected the public expectation for productivity apps or they didn't push enough that it's aimed as a media device.
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Posted: 2014-03-24 18:25:31
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@Ricky D
i understand what you are saying and i agree that the term is not absolute. to be clear, i said that z ultra is not a flagship (when i say "flagship" = the common meaning of it among people and tech geeks in 2014) only because it lacks decent camera and led flash. not because of its size. though, for example, if it had 7" display with the Z2 camera and led flash it wouldn't be a flagship by that "street term" cause it would cross the border to mini tablets size. flagships are also pocketable. z ultra is in the border. do you agree on that?
i agree. if they keep the cellular phone capabilities then they should stick with 6.44" (or slightly smaller display imo) and bring it some unique features like s pen, easier operation with 2 windows, etc. but also pack it with Z2 camera and led flash and its other new features. then it would have all the characteristics of a "flagship".
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-24 18:25 ]
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Posted: 2014-03-24 19:17:33
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I for one don't mind the discussion between Wintermute and Amirprog. This is a forum for people who share a common interest in Xperia products, after all. Valid points were raised by both. And Amirprog, your posts didn't appear rude to me.
The XZU is unlikely to have been designed to sell in high numbers. This doesn't indicate failure. Of course Sony wants to recoup investment, but logic suggests the Ultra was a brand complementer, not a sales pusher. Not every product is designed to sell millions. The Bravia X9 TV is much the same, as it represents the future. If Sony does roll out an Ultra 2, then their internal feedback suggests upside regardless of actual XZU sales.
Wintermute does raise a point over next Ultra. It doesn't necessarily confirm a jump to 7" - that is a massive .56" increase, whereas previous increases tend to be more incremental to allow existing customers to adjust. Also, Sony is likely limited by what their suppliers (JDI, AUO etc) can produce. They can't simply conjure a size where one doesn't exist since their panels are outsourced. As the Ultra is relatively niche, I would be surprised if Sony was able to push for a custom-made panel. They may be limited to "off the shelf" components, but this is pure speculation on my part.
I side with Ricky D regarding the definition of a flagship. True, Wintermute, the term didn't exist a few years ago. If we look to history, flagships referred to a single commanding vessel in a naval fleet. It wasn't necessarily the largest or even the newest. In business, it is generally regarded as the most prominent or expensive product. For Sony: the XZ2.
On a side note, I saw someone operating a DJI Phantom drone in Hyde Park the other day. Pairing the controller to a comparatively tiny iPhone 5 hardly does justice. A slim phone with an oversized screen (like, say, the Ultra?) would be a perfect fit. There are some circumstances where an 6.4" - 7" phablet is ideal (watching media on flights etc). How to market and clearly define the value proposition of such a device is, as Amirprog noted, the challenge.
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Posted: 2014-03-24 19:21:53
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On 2014-03-24 19:21:53, Smaug wrote:
I for one don't mind the discussion between Wintermute and Amirprog. This is a forum for people who share a common interest in Xperia products, after all. Valid points were raised by both. And Amirprog, your posts didn't appear rude to me.
Ho hey, didn't say it ain't allowed here.
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Posted: 2014-03-24 19:32:10
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@Smaug
agreed.
Wintermute could be right. i never excluded it, but i think that if you ask z ultra users most would say that the display is big enough. Ricky D is one. he seems to be satisfied with the size as it's still pocketable and big enough to make difference. second thing, i made my assumption of 7" by looking at JDI website display list. around phablet size, they have 5.9" and 7". i know they can make modified size for sony, but Z2 and Z1 compact has the displays on that list so i could be right also. i agree, 5.9" and 7" are "off the shelf" and also 6.2" QHD exists but i doubt that sony will use QHD panels in 2014 because in my opinion, the hardware and battery are not strong enough to carry it.
fair enough.
totally a challenge.
[ This Message was edited by: amirprog on 2014-03-24 18:59 ]
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Posted: 2014-03-24 19:54:47
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@amriprog
Interesting... A 6.2" QHD panel coupled with Sony's latest screen tech would make great headline specs for a pocketable phablet. But you are right: without the battery to hold it up, all Sony would do is exchange one tradeoff for another. Plus, it hardly helps the "exactly where is this positioned?" conundrum of the original ZU.
Such a screen size decrease also contradicts what Randomuser suggests and I have little reason to doubt him. Plus, if "thinness is in" for Sony, then we can rule out an increase in thickness to accommodate a larger battery.
The T2 Ultra sports a 13MP camera w/flash so we can probably add that to a potential Z2 Ultra. It would be odd for a new Z Ultra to have lower specs than the T2.
I faintly recall an Xperia Arc design being mentioned last year but was quickly shot down. Now it has raised its head again. Any thoughts on a Z2 Ultra with a glass Arc design?
(Not that I'm suggesting the next Ultra will have anything other than Omni-balance. If the Z3 is truly just an incremental update, introducing a new design language then would help grab attention)
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Posted: 2014-03-24 20:41:47
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@Smaug
spot on! (agreed)
my time to upgrade will be around Z3 and Z4 but i'm really curious to know where is sony going with the ultra. if they go in the "flagship" footsteps then it will get my attention also.
for arc design, i hope that sony can make it with none plastic material, and if plastic then not the one that arc/arc s had. anyway, should be awesome design nonetheless like only sony knows.
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Posted: 2014-03-24 21:15:08
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