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This phone is so misterious. All we can be sure : 4K and 6GB + 128GB.
Dual cam probably for it..
Anything else is mistery.
They are keeping it behind a thousand doors.
C'mon Sony, XZ2 /XZ2c are just Raptors..
Let the T-Rex out...
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Posted: 2018-03-03 22:40:42
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On 2018-03-03 21:23:50, Moe87 wrote:
About dual cam.
Ppl bash Sony because de f2.0, but as the sensor becomes larger the f gets smaller. That is why we often see values smaller than f4.
There is the DEPTH OF FIELD story too, not just amount of light in.
It is easy to see that Sony works with lower EXPOSITION, to make photos look more real.
If you set same ISO and SS, 1/2.3" + f2 catches more light than smaller sensors with a bit bigger f.
If you look at DUAL CAM, each seems to have a different value of f.
I am curious to see if they are 1/2.3" or 1/2".
If Sony can manage to deliver high quality at high ISO like cameras do, XZ2P can easily pou any other to shame.
The demo used at MWC could easily outperform iphone X by at least 500%.
It is like to compare human vision x tiger vision in the woods at night.
[ This Message was edited by: Moe87 on 2018-03-03 20:25 ]
F getting smaller would mean a brighter lens, F1.4 vs F2, the F1.4 is a larger aperture but the number is smaller.
Let's look at the numbers here.
The Samsung S9 has a 1/2.5 sensor, 12MP (Pixel Pitch 1.4μm?), F1.5 (close to the f1.4 full stop) and 26mm lens, Sony has a 1/2.3, F2, 19MP (Pixel Pitch 1.22μm) 25mm wide lens. I don't think Samsung is using Sony's sensor and instead their own?
So Sony's sensor area is 29.73mm^2, while samsung's is 24.70mm^2, this is roughly 20% larger, which does sound like a lot. That being said samung's pixels are 1.4 vs 1.22 for Sony, so each pixel is around 15% larger than what sony has. So yes Sony's sensor has more area to catch more light, each pixel is smaller and this could decrease the sensor size advantage. Would need to compare 2 sensors the same size but different megapixel count to see how much pixel size would change the performance of the sensor. Below is a comparison of the sensor size.
[img]//www.esato.com/board/img.php?id=160921[/img]
As for F stop, F2 is a whole stop, where as f1.4 is the next stop over, but 1.5 is close not 100% but close enough. What does one stop do? well this is from wiki
Opening up a lens by one stop allows twice as much light to fall on the film in a given period of time. Therefore, to have the same exposure at this larger aperture as at the previous aperture, the shutter would be opened for half as long (i.e., twice the speed)
Meaning, the same amount of light a F2 lens at 1/100s (0.01s) would equal F1.4 at 1/200s (0.005s). This would in theory reduce blur since the shutter has to be open for a lot less time. Of course Samsung's lens is not 1.4 but 1.5, so while not an entire stop faster, it is somewhere between 2/3 and 1 stop faster. Wiki using 1/4 stops would mean a F1.5 is 3/4 of a full F stop to F2, so instead of twice as fast, it would mean 1.75 times faster.
so again, sony f2 at 1/100s, would be equal to samsungs f1.4 at 1/175s, which is not that far from f1.4 actually.
One could argue the difference is not much and I would agree but it all depends how much more light the lens is letting in and the sensor size as you stated. Of course my calcuation and assumptions could be wrong, I am not a pro photographer and only know the basics.
What would be great to see is a camera comparison of the new S9 and XZ2 both shooting on manual mode, same iso speeds and then seeing how faster the shutter speeds are and if the difference is that great as it could be.
So while partly right that Sony's larger sensor would take in more light, the fact that shutter speed can be reduced and still let in the same light as Soný's sensor is a big deal and would result in less blurry images.
As for any future dual cam setup, while I would love to see f1.8 on the dual cam phone, with OIS, it might be a long shot depending on how large the sensors on the dual cam will be. If Sony will use dual 1/2.3 sensors, F1.8 is plausible, but adding in OIS might be pushing it and asking for too much.
Although the new curved back and camera position could help Sony use dual 1/2.3 sensors, I feel there is space for that. Below is a comparison of the Sony XZ1 and XZ2 cams, same 6 lens setup but the XZ2 does provide more space around it for heat dissipation and thus could handle more 4k recording time.
So we have a few possibilities for the dual cam phone. In order to have the dual phone also support 960fps @1080, one sensor in the setup would have to be the IMX400, and the other could be anything else. Now ideally, if Sony made the imx400 lens a F1.8, the other could be a smaller sensor, and and F2.4 or even F2.8. It all depends on how large the sensor will be and what focal length as well, something around a 50mm lens.
Another option would be double IMX400 sensors, both with F2 lenses. Finally, perhaps, while unlikely, Sony would use a completely different sensor, developed specifically for the dual cam phone, something along the lines of the IMX400 with the built in DRAM but with less megapixels. How many MPs? well the SD845 can support dual 16MP cams, so perhaps either a dual 12MP design or dual 16MP design.
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Posted: 2018-03-04 01:24:22
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All I could find is that according to ppl who saw the demo, both work togethet to create 1 image.
Mate 10 does it.
There is no telephoto. It seems to be RGB + B/W.
The design.of second lens reminds the usual 25mm. The first looks wider.
I remember when GSMArena compared G6 x S8 x XZP, shutter about 1s and all on tripod, XZP humiliated S8.
Pixel 2016 had 1/2.3" ( 7.81mm), each pixel of 1.5 or 1.55 micron.
Imx400 has 1.22 micron pixels.
1.55/1.22 = 1.27
But 19/12 = 1.58
Pixels of imx400 are 78% of the size of imx 378.
But there are 58% more of them.
With the right software, even Z1 could outperform many new flagships
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Posted: 2018-03-04 02:24:24
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and that is the key...
hardware wise, sony's camera has been one of the best, if not the best. sadly it has been crippled by software for one reason or another. whether it's sony's purposeful limitations to keep their camera line relevant or just the mobile team's inability to take full advantage of the camera with their lack of expertise.
let's hope with the dual cam module and new image processor, there will much, much improved software algorithms to go with it resulting in images that will make all other phones look like toys. time will tell. just hope sony can pull it off.
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Posted: 2018-03-04 02:59:49
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On 2018-03-04 02:59:49, moogoo wrote:
and that is the key...
hardware wise, sony's camera has been one of the best, if not the best. sadly it has been crippled by software for one reason or another. whether it's sony's purposeful limitations to keep their camera line relevant or just the mobile team's inability to take full advantage of the camera with their lack of expertise.
let's hope with the dual cam module and new image processor, there will much, much improved software algorithms to go with it resulting in images that will make all other phones look like toys. time will tell. just hope sony can pull it off.
I don't have that many high hopes for this dual cam.. I personally believe Sony does it intentionally and puts great hardware in their cameras but then limit it with their software.. Maybe this is mandatory for Sony as a whole, a company that also provides sensors for other OEMs.. If the cameras of the smartphones are drastically different than the other smartphones then sony would loose some valuable customers and thus they limit their cameras.. So this dual cam is shaping up to be a beast of a thing but I don't have high hopes as according to me they would again limit it with software problems in order to remain at the same level as the other companies, if not worse than them..
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Posted: 2018-03-04 04:03:40
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I hope sony does include a depth sensor for bokeh
I mean that is the most popular setup as of now
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Posted: 2018-03-04 08:57:46
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I guess R&D department for Xperia is not so big and the executive don't invest a lot on it. That's why the software is horrible for a long time.
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Posted: 2018-03-04 14:01:21
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Is there any sample for xz2 out there, I can’t seems to find any.
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Posted: 2018-03-04 18:18:16
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@gitaroo
https://www.phonearena.com/ne[....]on-review-camera-test_id102874
Look at the faces and background.
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Posted: 2018-03-04 18:29:07
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Still with the noise and over sharpening. Same old Sony.
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Posted: 2018-03-04 18:44:27
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