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Hi all,
I agree their should be a warning system in place but also recognise this will create even more work for the mods and admin. I believe a Forum any Forum is a place where people should be able to express their views and opinions in a non insulting manner. Personally i hate it when people who are unable to articulate what they mean resort to insults and name calling very childish and unnecessary. In general most of the time it is quite civilised and humorous here but occasionally it does get out of hand.
Offenders should be warned their behaviour is unacceptable and i think this should be done openly to help deter others, persistent offenders should be either temporarily suspended or banished for ever if the don't change their ways.
Marc
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Posted: 2006-09-11 21:51:14
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imo the best warning system is to pm the mods if we recognize any not welcome post here, i mean it mainly according mobile fone related posts. really donnow whats the best according politic and religion, but as i see, esato stayed clear of it lately, so imo in that area is all fine
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Posted: 2006-09-11 21:55:05
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Must admit the warning system is a good idea. Have seen too many interesting threads locked and or deleted. Usually due to 2 individuals who seem to delight in being provacative in other peoples posts. One i noticed appears to search out threads to disrupt.. Shame that discussions get sabotaged by some individuals. And my apologies to Axxxr that i allowed my temper to slip a bit toward one of them in his 9/11 post. Usually i try to be more rational. But yes a warning system of some sort would be good.
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Posted: 2006-09-18 13:59:00
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The current system seems to work fairly well and I see no pressing reason to change it.
I don't see that a warning system is going to actually add anything to the forum. How effective would it be to know that someone has been warned about something if we don't know what that something is? If we are told about the reasons behind warnings then we will have to hear about every minor event that entails a warning as well as every argument and disagreement that reults in a warning and every halfwit who deliberately spams and posts tosh to disrupt the board. I don't see that as being either sensible or a good use of the moderators' time.
Then there is the possibility that a warning system could be used to manipulate the forum. Supposing someone sees that someone they don't like has a warning, they could perhaps try to goad the other person into breaking the rules again, knowing that they have already been warned and thus are getting closer to possibly being banned.
As for the suggestion of a three strike system, I can't say I find that any better. Do we want such a system that could constrain the moderators? I say constrain because at the moment the moderators can use their best judgment to decide on issues, but in a three strike system that might not be the case.
Imagine someone who has made three minor rule breaches; they would have to be banned under such a system, rather the moderators being able to decide on a case by case basis. The same would apply for someone who already had two 'strikes' and inadvertantly broke the rules a third time, again that member would be banned automatically.
I prefer to trust the moderator's judgement. Of course they are fallible, but in the time I have been a member here, they have done a good job of keeping this forum running well.
Moderating a forum should not be a public spectacle, and that is a principle the Esato moderators seem to have adhered to for as long as I can remember. Let the moderators get on with their jobs, they know what they are doing and I trust them to be able to make the right decision.
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[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-09-18 16:17 ]
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Posted: 2006-09-18 17:13:57
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On 2006-09-18 17:13:57, scotsboyuk wrote:
The current system seems to work fairly well and I see no pressing reason to change it.
The current system doesn't resolve the issue of certain members who intentionaly go into threads in oder to sabotage them and have them locked....They know that simply by them deliberately making offensive and off topic remarks is a sure way moderators will lock the thread,and the thread poster and positive contributers of that thread lose out on their discussion which until that point was going well.
The current system only rewards trouble makers and not deter them in any kind of way.
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Posted: 2006-09-18 21:05:46
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I agree, I do not think that the current system is bad, i think there is room for improvement.
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Posted: 2006-09-18 23:23:33
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On 2006-09-18 21:05:46, axxxr wrote:
The current system doesn't resolve the issue of certain members who intentionaly go into threads in oder to sabotage them and have them locked....They know that simply by them deliberately making offensive and off topic remarks is a sure way moderators will lock the thread,and the thread poster and positive contributers of that thread lose out on their discussion which until that point was going well.
The current system only rewards trouble makers and not deter them in any kind of way.
There are three parts to this argument in my opinion, and I shall address each in turn.
First of all we have the issue of the members allegedly sabotaging threads. The present system allows a moderator to warn/ban such a member and to delete that member's posts in said thread. Indeed, one only has to look at the 9/11 thread to see how a moderator recently pruned back off-topic posts and set the thread back on track.
No one has to respond to another member's posts. If someone is disrupting a thread then the best thing to do would be to ignore them and report them to the moderators. That way deliberate disruption can be minimised.
What would a warning system do to prevent thread disruptions? Trouble makers will already know they have received a warning and so know that they are closer to being banned. All a warning system would really do would be to advertise that fact to everyone else, with the negative aspects I pointed out before.
The second point is the underlying reason change is being proposed at all. Any thread has the potential to be hijacked, but threads dealing with controversial subjects are more likely to be co-opted by people looking to cause trouble. But then what do you expect? If one wishes to discuss subjects that have the potential to cause controversey or serious disagreement one is going to have to expect the possibility of arguments.
If such topics can not be discussed here in a civil manner in the first place perhaps the question we should be asking is whether they should be discussed at all rather than looking to change the way the forum works to accomodate topics that bring trouble? Simply put, if certain topics can't be discussed sensibly then I don't see why they deserve special treatment to accomodate them.
The last point is in this notion of 'rewarding' troublemakers. If someone is breaking the rules the moderators can and will deal with that person, either through giving them a warning to stop what they are doing or banning them to prevent them from doing it again. It's a relatively simple system.
What exactly is it you want to be done to members who break the rules? Beyond giving them a warning or banning what can be done? We have moderators here to keep order and ensure the forum runs smoothly, I don't see that moves to 'publicise' that process or force the moderators to take decisions they otherwise might not have are good things to do.
_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-09-18 23:38 ]
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Posted: 2006-09-19 00:37:29
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I think anything that loads extra work onto the moderators is a no no, when you look at how many there are and how many are actually visible then it seems to me they must have enough to do behind the scenes already.
I think the best way to keep things in the check is for members to be proactive. Most people on here know what they can and cannot get away with already and newbies soon pic up on the rules and etiquette.
If something offends you or upsets you then pm a mod - asking the mods to keep track of how many strikes each member has is tantamount to tripling the workload for them.
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Posted: 2006-09-19 01:06:46
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the system is supposed to help the mods and also to prevent people from 'sabotaging' threads constantly. Because whether they get a reply or not, their goal has been fulfilled.
additionally, if we were to simply stop allowing certain topics. I guess it means the 'saboteurs' win.
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[ This Message was edited by: amnesia on 2006-09-19 01:25 ]
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Posted: 2006-09-19 02:20:20
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I agree with scotsboyuk and goldenface. I think that the mods already have too much work as it is.
Regarding thread hijackers, I've been here a looooong time already and I have seen all kinds of clowns. My method of dealing with these trolls is simple. Just
ignore them. Just act as if they are not there. I know, it seems simple, but its actaually easier said than done.
First of all it takes enormous self-control to not actually say something in retaliation to that troll. The point to remember is that the troll is looking for a reaction. Give him/her none and you would have "won". You guys said you don't want them to "win" right? Then ignore them, when they get no reaction they will feel silly/mad. Then you would have "won". Don't give them a rection, give them nothing, don't waste your
time and energy.
Do they actually deserve you precious time and energy? Think about that.
Right, now the other thing we can't control is how the other members are going to react to trolls right? When a troll steps into the thread, I'd suggest that you guys advise other members/newbies to ignore "it". IMHO, its a better approach than telling the troll to bugger off. That way you guys just continue as if 'it" is not there. Don't get worked up over something soo trivial. Its just not worth it. Really it isn't. Just move on and talk to the nice people. Ignore the worthless ones.
If ALL of us can just learn to ignore the crappy posts, I think the number of crappy posts will just dwecline and eventually go away. I cannot stress enuf the importance of ALL of us working together to ignore the people who are just not worth talking to. Like i said, do you want to waste your time and effort responding to these people? Is your time and effort that worthless? Don't waste it.
My sig says it the best.
Cheers people. Don't get too worked up.
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Posted: 2006-09-19 04:17:28
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