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this is why I'm interested in JAVA, it has potential to become almost as useful as full OS integrated application support, including multi-tasking. With the growth in JAVA there is a growing pool of apps that will eclipse both UIQ and s60 in terms of volume of available software (especially in the freeware area). Because it's a cross platform application api, JAVA has the potential to displace even WM in terms of availability of apps. JAVA means developers don't have to code three completely different versions of their app just to target all mobile users in the market.

Also there is a ton more support for j2me developers, and no proprietary lock in requirements. It's a much more open platform than UIQ, s60 or even WM. Java developers can relatively easily (with a little re-orientation) port their JAVA apps to J2ME, but it's not so easy to port anything to UIQ or s60.
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Posted: 2007-09-10 02:43:55
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Ah somebody remembers how WELL Sony "single-handedly" made Palm OS Garnet what it is today. Sony introduced expandable memory (Memory Stick - original), a GUI based Grafitti pen input area - instead of using a hardware based input area (increased screen real-estate), introduced VGA & QVGA screen resolutions (back then most Palm hardware even Acer Palm OS hardware was just 160x160 resolutions), and finally added Camera's, GPS, and video playback along with music playback, and also light sensor. When Palm decided to steal advancements that SONY introduced by changing the Licensing agreement that ALL OS API's and improvements be submitted to Palm Inc, even retrofitting to EXISTING licensee's and agreements else pay hefty fines or even an embargo .... Sony finished up their remaining contract (2yrs) and barely released more than 3 products and left Palm OS. This occured just before announcement of Palm OS 6 - Cobalt. Smart move on Sony's part.

Palm OS should have died LONG ago .... and I think SE can bring HUGE functional and design improvements. HTC is releasing too much of the same design lately Touch > Wing, and TYTN > TYTN II. Without HTC WM would be going NOWHERE; sure HP's latest annoucements are interesting but minimum license agreement revenue.




LMAO .... sorry Max no insult here. I'm just surprised that you haven't heard.

RIM (Research In Motion) for several YEARS now has been making a smartphone - Multitasking FULL - based SOLELY on J2ME Java. You may have heard of the BLACKBERRY lineup. Btw, their a Canadian company - to which I'm proud of.

Following models are ALL Java OS based and have specific API's and core OS underpinings UNIQUE to Blackberry & RIM:

7270 (WiFi SIP based)
7250
7290
7520
8700 (e= CDMA version, c/g/r for GSM/EDGE for Cingular/Tmobile/Rogers respectively)
8100 Pearl (EDGE)
8800 (has GPS chip, 8830 World is CDMA, 8820 has WiFi & GPS)
8300 Curve = EDGE (8310 has GPS, 8320 TMobile USA gets WiFi with UMA support with VoIP and seemless handoff ... to be announced Sept 24th)

Many are SOON awaiting a 3G based device for the rest of the world (the model 8707 for Vodafone is UMTS 2100 using a Qualcomm chip). The OS is advancing VERY fast and is VERY VERY SECURE!

Only 4 known hacks are known to date (15 yrs, 10 of which are on Java OS - previous was C++ code) - and ALL MUST have interraction by the use to ALLOW it to do what the hacks where DESIGNED to do - OS invokes ALL applications that need access to Radio, User Data, Core OS db's, etc to be ALLOWED by the user via a prompt! or permissions allowed directly by the user. These are now breaking into consumer realm.

Cisco
Avaya
DAS
Yahoo (GO!)
Opera (Mini)
etc etc and many serious corporate apps ALL in Java have been made and work on the BlackBerry platform. MUCH more than most ppl know.
I'm a high level administrator on a corporate BES - I manage at a HD level and I'm our entire HD (HelpDesk) Focal and have been for almost 2 years. Created many documentation for Troubleshooting and see new findings every week. But I don't have FULL access to the BES, true admins are in the US and are worried that others on my team can bring the 4 BES servers down. Yes these devices CAN be managed remotely over the air.

So when you hear of BBConnect ... you'll NOW know its RIM and BlackBerry platform and where its coming from.

So how does all relate to THIS thread.

By end of this year, RIM will have a NEW BBConnect software that when installed and invoked for WM Professional/ Standard the OS will run a full application emulation so the LOOK and FEEL of the app and other applications for that platform is the same as a BB device. There are STILL some limitations to obviously protect their OWN hardware business.

IF RIM can do this .... I believe SE can greatly enhance Windows Mobile more than just a simple GUI enhancement that HTC Touch brings. Touch is nice ... but it doesn't go far enough to truly revolutionize WM. For one, I believe, that just even the icons in WM need some serious! makeover ... the look so 1990's its sad.

PS @Max if you still interested in what Java OS can do take a look at the Official BlackBerry thread here on Esato ... I posted screenshots a while back from my previous BB Pearl 8100 unit.

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Posted: 2007-09-10 05:41:27
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Good points prom1, but blackberry advanced phone java apis do not conform to the general standard (am I wrong?). For example the blackberry api's are not implemented on SE for example and are limited by licencing as well as being hardware specific.

But I don't know that much about blackberry java, except that the cross platform j2me api's still need some development before they are as advanced as blackberry. Blackberry have an advantage and infact their non-standard j2me implementations are proprietary and do not encourage broad-based application support via j2me to all handsets. In this respect it's not much better than UIQ or s60 in term of cross platform portability.

Still, it does show what's possible. Unlike mib and others, I don't believe that it's "impossible" for java to access advanced phone functions (for example a j2me "phone" app), it's just that the generic industry wide j2me does not support those implementations YET. But it's possible and I look forward to the day when the STANDARD J2ME is has this level of integration with hardware.


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Posted: 2007-09-10 06:00:43
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You are indeed correct! On all points. I do think though that Sun Microsystems is taking not on what Blackberry API's are doing. So if a new industry upstart takes GREAT coders & developers we could see something not too far off.

PS although I hate to admit it, the TMobile Sidekick / HipTop that has a larger following in the US (Paris Hilton zombies) also uses Java ... but it too I think is proprietary and even MORE limiting.
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Posted: 2007-09-10 07:54:29
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i would like that but dunno how stable the win6 is really
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Posted: 2007-09-10 08:58:41
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Actually I almost agree with Prom1. The one thing is I think SE should ditch UIQ and go for s60 and help develop the touch based os. Then also add its own customization. I don't really think the current break up of Symbian is healthy as UIQ is pretty small compared to s60.
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Posted: 2007-09-10 23:03:38
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As it is, SE have more control of UIQ. They would be at Nokia's whim if they used s60. For a company that wants to compete against Nokia in it's own right, I don't think going to s60 would be healthy at all.

The best thing they can do with UIQ3, is open it up and make it more widely available through better licencing and also better developer support. This they are in the process of doing.
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Posted: 2007-09-11 01:15:48
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P990 + WM6 would IMO be a killer phone.
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Posted: 2007-09-11 01:32:35
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me me me!!
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Posted: 2007-09-11 21:12:50
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WM6 on the P990i would be interesting as an option. My previous phone was the i-mate JasJam running WM5 and I miss three things:

- Faster Office suite. Pocket Excel was a dream compared to QuickOffice, at least in terms of speed.

- Copy/cut and paste; how you reach it through tap-and-hold (like the menu you have in P990's Opera browser).

- The JasJam has the same amount of RAM as the P990i but I never even once had any issues with low memory; Windows Mobile handles memory more efficiently. This allowed for proper multi-tasking without worrying about apps being killed in the background.

What I don't miss from WM5 on the JasJam:

- PIE (Pocket Internet Explorer) (!!!!) Opera is a dream compared to PIE.

- Pocket Outlook's inability to present HTML content in e-mail in a good manner (although this has improved in WM6).

- Microsoft's Bluetooth stack. A2DP only works with a few headsets.

_________________
The Tree of Life is Self-Pruning. -- DarwinAwards.com

[ This Message was edited by: AbuBasim on 2007-09-12 05:50 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-12 06:45:59
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