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On 2005-07-14 11:09:19, Sammy_boy wrote:
Morning PeterKay! Hope you're OK.
Just read your last statement about people not been forced to do what it says in the Quran, but they saying that God rewards those who do, and punishes those who dont.... That sounds like a very severe coercement to me!
The punishment in hell will be very severe according to the verses in the Quran. This is the life where we must follow the truth so that we can save ourselves and our families from the torment of Hell-Fire.
This is what Chapter 78 states:
"Truly Hell is as a place of ambush,
For the transgressors a place of destination:
They will dwell therein for ages.
Nothing cool shall they taste therein, nor any drink,
Save a boiling fluid and a fluid, dark, murky, intensely cold,
A fitting recompense (for them).
For that they used not to fear any account (for their deeds),
But they (impudently) treated Our Signs as false.
And all things have We preserved on record.
"So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds); for no increase shall We grant you, except in Punishment."
May Almighty Allah (God) save us all - amen
_________________
"Verily in the heavens and the earth, are Signs for those who believe"
"Verily the Day of Sorting out is a thing appointed"[ This Message was edited by: PeterKay on 2005-07-14 10:37 ]
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Posted: 2005-07-14 11:22:14
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Chapter 7 Verses 50/51 mention the following:
"The Companions of the Fire will call to the Companions of the Garden: "Pour down to us water or anything that Allah doth provide for your sustenance." They will say: "Both these things hath Allah forbidden to those who rejected Him."
"Such as took their religion to be mere amusement and play, and were deceived by the life of the world." That day shall We forget them as they forgot the meeting of this day of theirs, and as they were wont to reject Our signs.
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Posted: 2005-07-14 11:28:53
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Sounds like I'm going to hell then - as I don't believe in any God, although I do try to live a good life where I can!
This is one thing I don't like about religions, the sheer coerciveness of them I'm afraid, the 'belive in us or rot in hell' approach. It leaves a choice, but not much of a one!
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Posted: 2005-07-14 11:39:26
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Chapter 40 Verses 17-20 state:
"That Day will every soul be requited for what it earned; no injustice will there be that Day, for GOD (Allah) is Swift in taking account.
Warn them of the Day that is (ever) drawing near, when the hearts will (come) right up to the throats to choke (them); No intimate friend nor intercessor will the wrong-doers have, who could be listened to.
GOD (Allah) knows of (the tricks) that deceive with the eyes, and all that the hearts (of men) conceal.
And Allah will judge with (justice and) Truth: but those whom (men) invoke besides Him, will not (be in a position) to judge at all. Verily it is GOD (Allah) alone Who hears and sees (all things). "
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Posted: 2005-07-14 11:40:41
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On 2005-07-14 11:39:26, Sammy_boy wrote:
Sounds like I'm going to hell then - as I don't believe in any God, although I do try to live a good life where I can!
That's your opinion Sammy and nice to know what you believe in
Chapter 40 sheds more light for us all:
"The Hour will certainly come: Therein is no doubt: Yet most men believe not.
And your Lord says: "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer): but those who are too arrogant to serve Me will surely find themselves in Hell - in humiliation!"
It is (God) Allah Who has made the Night for you, that ye may rest therein, and the days as that which helps (you) to see. Verily (God) Allah is full of Grace and Bounty to men: yet most men give no thanks.
Such is (God) Allah, your Lord, the Creator of all things, there is no god but He: Then how ye are deluded away from the Truth!
Thus are deluded those who are wont to reject the Signs of (God) Allah.
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Posted: 2005-07-14 11:50:27
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i would say i am a Christian with no real denominational affiliation and fairly liberal views. i am generally opposed to the rigidity of organised religion because i think it can be far too controlling of how a person interprets their faith (which should be a deeply personal experience), but i can also see how religion can be useful forum for discussing the various aspects of that faith with others.
@Peter: your quotes seem very similar to the bible passages i had to study in high school.
could you please telll me why the Qu'ran tought today is the same as when it was first revealed? i don't mean from a religious point of view but from a pragmatic one (i.e. how do you know it hasn't been altered?). just curious
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Posted: 2005-07-14 12:01:17
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@gelfen, the bible and Quran are very similar indeed my friend.
The entire Quran was written down during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad, and trusting the fact that many scholars knew it by heart, it was not collected in one volume. It was personally arranged by him, and the Muslims memorized it in the same order. The companion Uthman reported that whenever a new verse was revealed, the Prophet would immediately call a scribe to record it. He would instruct the person to put the specific verse or verses in a particular chapter.
Furthermore, every year during the month of Ramadan, the Prophet would recite the whole Quran from beginning to end in its present-day arrangement, and everyday people could hear it from his own lips in the mosque. Its sequence is no mystery. Many of the Companions not only memorized it completely, they also wrote it down and even added commentary (tafseer) on their own personal copies. When the Prophet passed away, the whole Qur’an was already written down, but it was not yet compiled in book form.
During the rule of the first Caliph Abu Bakr, there was a rebellion among some distant Arab tribes that resulted in a series of fierce battles. In one particular battle, a number Companions who had memorized the Quran were killed. The Companion Omar worried that the knowledge of the Qur’an was in danger, thus he convinced Abu Bakr that the Quran should be compiled into book form as a means of preserving it once and for all.
Today you will find many Muslims around the world who have memorized the whole Quran from beginning to end word by word (me being one of them). The Holy Quran consists of over 800 pages in arabic and wherever you go in the world today you will come across the same Quran everywhere. Transalations may have more pages but will bear the same meanings.
Hope this helps.
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Posted: 2005-07-14 12:12:55
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yes it does, thanks
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Posted: 2005-07-14 12:32:24
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On 2005-07-14 10:55:33, gelfen wrote:
Anyhow, I’m off home from work to bed. Hope to have some good responses to this lot tomorrow. I'm happy to be corrected if I missed anything obvious
@gelfen, enjoy your rest time.
Chapter 40 mentions the following:
"It is (God) Allah Who has made the Night for you, that ye may rest therein, and the days as that which helps (you) to see. Verily (God) Allah is full of Grace and Bounty to men: yet most men give no thanks"
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Posted: 2005-07-14 12:55:30
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That's a pretty impressive feat Peter, memorising all of the Quran!
I like this thread, people are debating religion in an intelligent and rational way, no flaming - the way it should be!
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Posted: 2005-07-14 12:58:02
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