Sony Ericsson / Sony : General : Do you think SE now have the edge over Nokia now?
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well, nokia wasn't doing extremely well, but there is still some progress.
they regained their market share again. going from 31% to 33%.
they somewhat missed the boat with better handsets and better displays, but that is gonna change. now nokia has many series 60 handsets prices below k700 or 6230!
btw, nokia is about to release another 3xxx series i.e. low-end series 60 model.
I gues next year will be nokia year ...
they have a very good portfolio of phones.
what have SE got?
basicaly t230, t630, k700, s700, z800, p910 and that's all!
look at nokia ...
not to mention, nokia deployed 24 of 50 3G networks => which means better contacts & contracts with operators.
[ This Message was edited by: aquila2 on 2004-10-16 01:00 ]
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Posted: 2004-10-16 01:58:47
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@aquila2
I have to disagree with your view that next year will be 'Nokia's year', if anything Nokia are likely to face more competition than ever. Samsung, for example, are increasingly offering stiff competition to Nokia in several markets, including Finland itself.
Your appraisal of SE's range of products fails to take into account new SE products to be released in the next year e.g. the V800.
Your comments regarding Nokia's involvement with 3G seem a little one sided as you fail to consider the fact that Vodafone, the world's largest mobile operator, is using one Nokia 3G handset in its initial consumer 3G service; there will be ten handsets used in total. For the world's leading manufacturer of mobile phones to have only one product featured in Vodafone's initial service seems a rather poor showing in my opinion. In addition all the reports I have read about Vodafone's initial 3G handset range give high praise to the V800, not the Nokia handset.
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Posted: 2004-10-16 16:57:37
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scottboy: but I wasn't speaking of hendsets, but of buildin networks. which makes a very good starting position. nokia does have only 3 3G handset right now. 6650 which is discontinued, 7600 which is actually "low end" when it comes to 3G and 6630. but nokia is about to release many new 3g handsets. and since they have implemented the network, they can offer better deals to operators ... you will see
V800 is nice phone but very very expensive, something that wont sells in numbers thus having much impact on sales/turnover of SE.
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Posted: 2004-10-16 17:22:20
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@aquila2
I know that you were speaking about network infrastructure, but I was making a point that Nokia's involvement in 3G can be seen in different ways. I think you would have to agree that for the biggest mobile phone manufacturer in the world to be providing just one 3G handset out of ten for Vodafone isn't all that good, I would have expected them to have provided at least two.
I don't think that all this talk of sales figures is terribly constructive as it doesn't really tell us what we don't already know, namely that Nokia outsells SE and everyone else to for that matter. Even mib1800's statistics are not as insightful as they would first appear, after all they only tell us that Nokia is doing well at a particular time whilst SE are not; this isn't indicative of long term performance and I don't think we should read too much into such statistics.
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Posted: 2004-10-16 17:59:54
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@scotsboyuk:
u r right when u say stat cannot give any indication of
long term performance. however, it does give some info on near term performance.
one thing we do know from the stat is that Nokia is on the upswing again unlike the gloom and doom predicted by SE fans. Nokia increase is something like 6 million phones in
one quarter. SE only achieved 3 million increase in
one year
it will be interesting to see whether Nokia can continue its upward surge in Q4 04. I would think so because some very interesting/heavyweight models will go on sale in Q4.
Conversely whether SE growth has lost steam or it is just a blip in the stat. Other than S700, no other SE models are in sight. So it may be even tougher Q4 for SE.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2004-10-16 17:36 ]
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Posted: 2004-10-16 18:36:16
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@mib1800
I think your analysis rests on a false pretext, just because SE haven't announced new mobiles yet doesn't mean to say there won't be new models released. SE seem to have become a lot stricter with announcements, perhaps this is a result of past mistakes e.g. Z1010 announcement.
SE have bene increasing their product range and I think we shall see a wider range still in 2005. SE are now starting to stablise their position and as a result SE will hopefully be able to offer more products, which can appeal to a wider range of customers.
I would like to reiterate my earlier comments regarding definition; what exactly are we debating here? This discussion seems to have move donto business strategies and market performance, which I don't believe to be all that relevant to debating if SE have an 'edge' over Nokia. Clearly SE do not have any edge over Nokia in terms of sales, so perhaps we should concentrate on debating whether SE has an edge over Nokia in terms of other factors.
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Posted: 2004-10-16 18:49:42
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@scotsboy
while i agree with you over the direction of the debate its very difficult to split the other factors as they are part of the full package, technology is important but without sales you can invest in technology without marketing you can sell the products so again can t generate cash to reinvest.
from a purely technology point of view se do have a edge with there phones eg 1.3mp cameras touch screen etc
but when i look at he whole package i cant get away from the facts that overall sales investments range customer focus etc nokia have a slight edge.
it s always difficult to debate on these things as people who are brand focused are always gonna side with there favourite brand and rightly so as they have probably had many great experiences with them so its always gonna lead to biased debate.
still this has been a good debate and long may it continue
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Posted: 2004-10-16 18:59:47
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@slattery69
I agree with your point in the integration of sales, research, marketing, etc, but for the purposes of this debate I believe that it is not only advantageous, but necessary to seperate the different factors we are debating.
We still haven't defined what we mean by 'edge', if it is technology we are to be looking at then I think we have to come to the conclusion that SE don't really have an edge over Nokia, but neither does Nokia have an edge over SE. Both companies are capable of producing a mobile phone with a great deal of advanced features, but it just so happens that Nokia chooses not to implement all those features in as many of its products as SE does.
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Posted: 2004-10-16 19:18:47
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@scotsboyuk
I'm saying SE phones going on sale next quarter Q4. Of course further down the road there'll be new phone announced by SE.
Anyway it is not just SE that reported flat quarter-to-quarter sale. Samsung also reported similar flat figure. Looks like Nokia has been mopping up most of the new volume growth for Q3.
How to define an "edge"? I think all we can do here is debate issue-based "edge" (i.e. A can do better than B in this area). I don't think we can or even try to reach a conclusion that "A has an overall edge than B" (unless one of the company went under or close shop.)
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Posted: 2004-10-17 18:22:21
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@mib1800
I would agree with your view regarding defining 'edge', but I do feel that we are concentrating very much on sales figures at the expense of other areas.
SE are in no position to offer a serious challenge to Nokia at the moment in terms of sales, but I think we shall see an increase in competition and a narrowing of profit margins across the board in the years to come as manufacturers have to offer increasingly more advanced products at lower prices.
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Posted: 2004-10-17 22:11:31
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