Sony Ericsson / Sony : General : Do you think SE now have the edge over Nokia now?
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@mib1800
My point was that the T68i is still a viable GSM mobile today, despite being relatively 'ancient'. I think that is perhaps one of SE's strongest points, their products are built to last in terms of functionality. A T610 is still a very good mobile despite having been superseded by not only the T630, but also the K700, both of which are also still excellent mobiles depsite having been superseded themselves.
Ironically this was also true of Nokia a few years ago, some of their older models were able to last beyond the normal lifespan of amobile phone, however, I do not believe the same can be said of Nokia's current products.
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Posted: 2004-10-20 03:39:06
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agreed with u on the T68. some phones are meant to be evergreen whether it is from tech or design point view. for example, Nk8850/90 looks as good today as was back then.
i think on the tech side, Nk6600, 6230, K700 and T610 would last quite a while. funny thing is some mediocre phones like the 3310 or 6610 seems to be able to hang around for a very long time.
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Posted: 2004-10-20 07:26:56
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@mib1800
You have raised a rather interesting point when you mentioned the 6610 as it is a prime example of how many customers, especially businness customers, simply want a mobile capable of phone calls, texting and perhaps Bluetooth connectivity for use with laptops etc. This is one of the reasons I haven't given as much importance to smartphones as you have. Of course trends do chnage, but I still hold to the view that many customers would prefer simplicity.
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Posted: 2004-10-20 13:24:07
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@scotsboyuk:
As I hv said before, i think the concept of a "smartphone" would be diffused. It is not so much of segmenting the market according to smartphone and non-smartphone but the evolution of phones gaining more "functions" or becoming smarter.
At least for Nokia this line is blurrer as it level down series60 to mid-range. So the consumers may not noticed the complexity as the additional functions are bundled as part of the phone.
I hv mentioned before that series60 platform gives Nokia great flexibility and advantage in customising phones at lower cost. The
side-effect is that techy customers can do their own customisation by installing programs.
I think the held view phone is just to make call will slowly be eroded. e.g. more people r using phone to take picture. As 3G becomes more pervasive, u will see more and more interactive uses. Nokia with its smartphone platform can react to this much more quickly.
When Nokia Series60 3G (with video calling) is unveiled in 2005, it wiil "kill 2 birds with one platform". One version is customised for normal user and one for business (just like what is being done with 7610/6670).
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Posted: 2004-10-20 16:24:36
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@mib1800
I agree with you concerning mobiles becoming more than just phones and I think, to some extent, we are already there. However, I also think that there will be a growing trend amongst many customers for simplicity, that doesn't necessarily mean, for example, that they won't want to use their mobile to pay for things, but I think it does mean that user customisable smartphones may not have the mass amrket that manufacturers might hope for.
Of course there will always be people who want the best and most advanced technology, but, in my opinion, the mass amrket lies somewhere between and I hold the view that all manufacturers will be able to cater to this market if they provide quality products, not necessarily Series 60 devices or even smartphones in general, but products that do what customers actually wan them to do, not just fancy extras that many might not have a use for.
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Posted: 2004-10-20 16:34:02
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@scotsboyuk:
i agree with u that there will always be a mass-market (say 50-70% of total) where people just want a phone to make calls. For this segment, it is open season for all manufacturers. Unfortunately, SE is weakest in this segment.
The rest may be aiming for higher end phones with better tech (such as camera, pda-type functions etc). I think nobody knows what proportion of customers in this segment who buy based on the
user-customisibility (i.e. "smartphone") capability. i believe at present it is more of the "buy-then-discover" type. But thru time, by word-of-mouth or media, i think more people would be aware of the advantage of smartphone. We may hv some indication of this from online shop such as Handango which has reported tremendous growth in sales for Series60 software.
Like I said quite a few times before, the great competitive edge for Nokia is in their investment in standardisation of their phones on the Series60 platform. What I mentioned above is just the icing on the cake. For example, to support new functionality in their new phones such as personal utilities, multimedia (mpeg/avi/wmf/aac) or office document viewing, all is needed to be done is just to bundle existing 3rd party software. The hardware part dont need to change much.
Contrast to non-OS platform like K700/S700. To add additional functionality in the next upgrade, u need to redo the firmware and develop new programs and redevelop the hardware. This results in higher cost and longer development time.
I think SE would be more affected by this Nokia Series60 smartphone move because the higher end market is SE bread-and-butter. Next year the heat will be more apparent for SE when the full range of Series60 are out (6600/7610/6670/6260/6630/8***/3***/6***/X700/D710).
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Posted: 2004-10-21 05:21:09
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there r 2 main problems which prevent sony ericsson to go past nokia are
1.pricing their phones are highly priced
2.no symbian phones with expandable memory for less price
if they revise on their models and pricing i think they will beat nokia...
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Posted: 2004-10-21 10:19:46
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@mib1800
I agree with you that SE do have a weakness regarding the low-end market, but I think we are approaching a turning point for SE; there are rumours of an imminent announcement concerning new low-end SE mobiles, possibly on the 25th. Whether or not there is an announcement SE have clearly been moving towards the low-end with products like the F500/K500.
I don't place as much faith in Nokia's Series 60 products to do battle with SE in the high-end market, chiefly because I feel that the market for smartphones has been overestimated. I'm not denying that there has been massive growth in this area or that it will continue to grow, but I think that the level of importance attached to it has been more than is actually warranted.
Conversely I feel that 3G is being vastly underestimated; it is here that I think the main battle will be fought. 3G is almost a level playing field in that niether SE or Nokia have a significant advantage in terms of technology, but with the heavy subsidisation SE can afford to fill its handsets with advanced features and not be worried about customer affordability. Nokia on the other hand will perhaps have to look at its strategy of releasing multiple products with less features since such products will have a similar cost to the customer as those with more features. Of course extra features aren't always required, but customers seem to expect a certain basic level these days.
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Posted: 2004-10-21 15:43:31
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@scotsboyuk:
i agree with u that it would be good if SE will launch some low-end models to broaden their range.
I think when u mentioned smartphone u think of P900. But this is a high-end niche segment. Nokia will hv 7710/9300/9500 to compete with P900 and Microsoft PDAphone in this segment.
i think maybe u still don't get my points on Series60. I believe u still think Series60 phones will ONLY compete in the very high-end "smartphone" category. When Nokia make Series60 as its mainstream phone OS, many versions of Series60 phones will be deployed to compete in the
"mid", "high" and "smartphone" category at competitive prices.
Smartphone and 3G are
NOT mutually exclusive as ur statement seems to implied. 3G itself is the infrastructure to transmit high speed data. To do things like video conferencing / interactive / multimedia / e-commerce / gaming, u still need the software. So my points in my previous post still applies here.
So with Series60 3G (e.g 6630), Nokia can leverage on the hundreds of 3rd party Series60 developers to built the 3G applications. And like 2.5G, Nokia can target many different categories (business / normal / fashion) with different Series60 phones by bundling different 3G software. And Series60 phones can be upgraded easily.
As in my previous post, compare to proprietary OS that is used in SE V800. So in order for SE to upgrade V800 to support new functions, SE needs to "redo firmware, develop 3G apps and develop/modify phone hardware".
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Posted: 2004-10-22 04:12:57
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From the user point of view, I donīt like Nokia seris 60, have tried them and honestly prefer my T610.
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Posted: 2004-10-22 05:31:44
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