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On 2005-07-15 09:29:28, gelfen wrote:
that is also how a large proportion of modern western societies operate.
I disagree. In the UK, although one is free to practise one's religion openly, Christianity is the State religion, our Head of State is the Head of the Church and "Christian Values" are seen as the norm. In the UK it's an offence to incite hatred towards Christians, Jews and Sikhs but there is no law protecting Hindus, Muslims nor Buddhists. Non-Christian worship and practise is tolerated, but it is not encouraged.
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Posted: 2005-07-15 09:38:46
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i meant that is how they operate in general terms, because most westernised countries have freedom of religion enshrined in law. i was deliberately avoiding specificity.
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Posted: 2005-07-15 09:46:06
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Morning and Peace to all.
As it is Friday, the day that us Muslims congregate to our Lord - I will mention a few verses from the Holy Quran.
Chapter 62 Verses 9-11:
"O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of (God) Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!
And when the Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of (God) Allah. and celebrate the Praises of (God) Allah often (and without stint): that ye may prosper.
But when they see some bargain or some amusement, they disperse headlong to it, and leave thee standing. Say: "The (blessing) from the Presence of (God) Allah is better than any amusement or bargain! and Allah is the Best to provide (for all needs)."
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Posted: 2005-07-15 09:57:57
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On 2005-07-15 06:34:52, 02 wrote:
@scotsboyuk
yes... in Islam we too believe that this world is just an illusion... but when u say Taoism doesnt believe in God.. then whats the reason we're here? what causes this life.. or just what causes me and you..
In relation to this existence, I cannot give you an answer comparable to one Islam may give you. This world does not actually exist; we are not actually here; I am not actually typing this. We and the rest of this world are manifestations of the Tao, we are one possibility amongst infinite others.
So neither of us really exist, what does exist is the Tao. You and I are not seperate, we are both of the Tao, this world gives us the illusion of being seperate. We are of the Tao, but this illusion prevents us from seeing that sometimes.
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If theres no heaven and hell... then im safe for doin sins in this world and do wat osama or bush do, War.. But then again... we may think again... then who gives the prophets of Islam and Christian powers..??
Sin is not a concept readily accepted in many Eastern religions or pholosophies. Taoism doe snot see the world in terms of black and white, but rather a mixture of the two. Sometimes bad can lead to good and the opposite is equally true.
The Tao is the path of balance, the path of nature. Taoists do not seek extremes of anything because they realise that an extreme of anything is not of the Tao and will lead to unbalance and suffering.
Taoism teaches acceptance of the world, that both good and evil exist. Good cannot exist without evil, the two must be accepted together. We all do both good and bad things in our lives, the trouble lies in extremes, when people seek to let one dominate over the other.
When there is balance there is Harmony.
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Posted: 2005-07-15 09:59:42
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On 2005-07-15 09:38:46, absinthebri wrote:
In the UK it's an offence to incite hatred towards Christians, Jews and Sikhs but there is no law protecting Hindus, Muslims nor Buddhists. Non-Christian worship and practise is tolerated, but it is not encouraged.
I'm fairly certain that Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists are indeed offered that protection under both UK and EU law. As far as I am aware it is a crime to incite hatred on the basis of someone's religion, no matter what that be.
All religions must be given the same equality under the law, even though Protestant Christianity is the 'official religion'. The Royal Navy, for example, funds Satanists in the navy to help them with their religious practices.
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Posted: 2005-07-15 10:03:22
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@O2 - I was born a Christian and baptised, although I am now pretty much an Athiest. I'm afraid to say I don't believe in heaven and hell, though as I say I wish I did believe that we went to a better place (if we were good), because at the moment I don't think we go anywhere when we die - that's our lot done with!
I'm also unhappy in general with the idea that no matter how good and unselfish a life a person leads, even if they were a model citizen and never broke a law, offended anyone, gave generously, and so on, would go to 'hell' for the simple reason they didn't believe in God. That seems very petty to me, and I have to say I hope that Man will eventually be able to take responsibility for his own actions, without having to blame or claim that a higher deity was involved. I hope I am not offending anyone by saying that bit!
@absinthe - I'm tempted to disagree with the statement that practicing non-Christian faiths is only tolerated - look at all that insidious political correctness that has appeared - local councils banning signs and banner saying 'Merry Christmas' and forcing people to say 'season's greetings' instead, and other such nonsense. I'm also unclear on how the law protects Christians, Sikhs etc. but not Muslims etc.?
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Posted: 2005-07-15 10:15:09
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On 2005-07-15 10:03:22, scotsboyuk wrote:
I'm fairly certain that Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists are indeed offered that protection under both UK and EU law. As far as I am aware it is a crime to incite hatred on the basis of someone's religion, no matter what that be.
They may be protected under EU law but that has yet to be tested in the UK courts, as far ad I'm aware. Unfortunately the only *religions* protected under UK law are Christianity, Judaism and Sikhism. Some people are protected under race laws (hatred of, say, Muslims is often hatred of Asian people, or whatever). You may be aware that a new offence of inciting religious hatred is making its way through Parliament and is being hotly discussed. Some people seem to think that a law outlawing incitment to hatred will outlaw a right to criticise. It won't, of course.
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All religions must be given the same equality under the law, even though Protestant Christianity is the 'official religion'. The Royal Navy, for example, funds Satanists in the navy to help them with their religious practices.
Indeed. It seems so self-evident that all 'proper' religions should be given equal status that people are surprised that it is not so already.
Here's the Home Office FAQ on it:
FAQ
_________________
We are not afraid.
[ This Message was edited by: absinthebri on 2005-07-15 09:22 ]
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Posted: 2005-07-15 10:18:11
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On 2005-07-15 10:15:09, Sammy_boy wrote:
I'm also unhappy in general with the idea that no matter how good and unselfish a life a person leads, even if they were a model citizen and never broke a law, offended anyone, gave generously, and so on, would go to 'hell' for the simple reason they didn't believe in God. That seems very petty to me, and I have to say I hope that Man will eventually be able to take responsibility for his own actions, without having to blame or claim that a higher deity was involved. I hope I am not offending anyone by saying that bit!
Some Eastern 'religions' already practice pretty much what you describe. Taoism for example.
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Posted: 2005-07-15 10:35:18
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Chapter 13 explains more regard the Creation.
Verses 2-4 state:
"Allah (God) is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.
And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!
And in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise: watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand!"
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Posted: 2005-07-15 11:24:42
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@ scot
I think and know the world DOES exist, the planets and galaxies animals and insects, they all exist....
but thats my thinking, not to be bad, disrespectfull or rude but that concept sound a bit Matrixy!
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Posted: 2005-07-15 11:41:34
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