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I buy all my phones at handytick.de
MOst of the time they have the cheapest offers with contract and sometimes cheaper without contract than other places.
They are not always the first to get the phones but when the got them you can be sure that they dont have any branding and the delievery is very fast
[ This Message was edited by: BIG-Stan on 2008-09-22 14:55 ]
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Posted: 2008-09-22 15:53:43
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On 2008-09-22 15:39:34, max_wedge wrote:
You are wrong about touchscreens needing to be soft and plastic. As I said, my xda mini has a glass screen. Without actually removing it, I think my ipaq is too. The samsung is quite hard also, though I'm pretty sure it's plastic. The things is, even glass has enough flex to accomodate the touch sensitivity of touchscreens. We are not talking the soft touchscreens of the early PPC's (before phones ppc's came along), the technology is much more effective now and soft screens aren't necessary.
I'm not sure what method smartphones use generally, but for clarity of image most probably use surface accoustic - this system relies on acoustical interference and not pressure - so panel flexibility is not necessary. I know I can activate a touchscreen even if I barely touch it, so I think it quite unlikely flexibility is a necessary part of non-capacitive touchscreens.
So you're saying none of the smartphone's you've used have a plastic touch-sensitive layer on top of the glass screen? They don't use a standard digitizer? That surprises me. Every touch sensitive smartphone I've seen has one, aside from the Iphone. Certainly my Tytn II does, and that's a pretty recent example of HTC WM hardware (with more than a passing similarity to the X1).
When you hold you XDA Mini up close and put pen to screen, you don't see any movement there at all? No flexing on the surface of the screen? Perhaps they used to build them better.
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Posted: 2008-09-22 15:58:59
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there is a little flexing but as I said it has a glass cover not plastic. Even glass has a degree of flexibility.
however, on my i780 and ipaq, I can activate the touchscreen without even pressing hard enough to flex the screen. I haven't tried the xdaII and the XDA mini is now in pieces
(it's water damaged and locks up frequently - not worth re-assembling)
I don't think the screen needs to be flexible to be touch sensitive. Or atleast not for surface accoustic touchscreens. Resistive touchscreens, cheaper but block more light, may explain touchscreens that have soft screens - these work by pushing two specially treated panels together and would need to have some flexibility.
Any really bright and clear screens I would've thought would use surface acoustic.
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Posted: 2008-09-22 16:18:03
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On 2008-09-22 14:09:35, plankgatan wrote:
does X1 support DNLA ???
does X1 support Xvid(DVix) movies ???
just curious....
im not bother to see the white paper
DLNA is not in the r3 white paper. It was in the r1 however. Perhaps SE bit off more than they could chew and ended up scaling back on some features to get the X1 ready by it's intended release date.
I'm hoping DLNA will be added in a future X1 firmware update though.
It doesn't say anything about Xvid in the white paper but I'm thinking that something like DVix is supported in software. So, IOW, it would be supported by way of third party software.
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Posted: 2008-09-22 16:30:14
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On 2008-09-22 16:18:03, max_wedge wrote:
there is a little flexing but as I said it has a glass cover not plastic. Even glass has a degree of flexibility.
I really doubt that. Glass so thin that it visibly flexes under a stylus could crack just as easily. Are you absolutely positive it's not a plastic top layer?
I don't think the screen needs to be flexible to be touch sensitive. Or atleast not for surface accoustic touchscreens. Resistive touchscreens, cheaper but block more light, may explain touchscreens that have soft screens - these work by pushing two specially treated panels together and would need to have some flexibility.
Any really bright and clear screens I would've thought would use surface acoustic.
I'll be honest with you, I'd never heard of surface acoustic until now, and I'm not 100% convinced that technology has ever been used in any smartphone. There's an easy article here explaining the common types of touchscreen including resistive and SAW -
http://www.cbc.ca/news/backgr[....]how-it-works/touchscreens.html - you'll notice they mention the dominance of resistive in smartphones, PDAs and other areas where durability is needed, and note the sensitivity of Surface Acoustic to dust and liquids - probably not the best type of screen for a phone or PDA? They certainly don't suggest it is, or has ever been used as such.
Every phone I've seen, WM or otherwise, uses the resistive type. You can usually see the membrane quite easily close up, and the soft flexing of that top layer under the stylus. I'd be amazed if the X1 uses anything different, and I'd be interested to see any evidence of that whatsoever.
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-09-22 15:44 ]
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Posted: 2008-09-22 16:32:15
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@Boinng and Max
Certainly plastic has many different levels of rigidity. From sandwich bags, to cars, to bulletproof "glass".
Glass has that distinctive "plink" sound when you tap it that plastic doesn't.
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Posted: 2008-09-22 17:08:33
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- @boing it's definitely glass, but glued (EDIT actually not glued as it turns out) to another layer beneath that, so perhaps it is resistive as you say. I'm no expert I accept your better knowledge. Maybe the early problem with resistive screens and light transference have been solved now.
But I can't deny my experience and observations, which is that the screen barely needs to be touched to be activated which indicates to me that the flexibility required on touchscreens is in the micro-millimeter range ie: low enough that a laminate glass screen isn't in danger of being cracked.
Even my i780 can be activated without flexing the screen to any observable degree. If such a minor pressure is enough to activate the touch screen, then the materials that make up resistive layers would need to be resonable rigid otherwise they would flop against eachother without even being touched. (according to wiki touch resistive layers are separated from eachother and activate when pressed together)
note: I just further investigated the xda mini screen - it has a thin plastic protective covering over the top of the glass (about the thickness of a sheet of heavy paper - flexible - this layer is only glued at the sides). I removed this and tried to scratch the glass underneath with scissors and couldn't. It's definitely glass.
The glass surface has a coating (looks like an anti-reflective coating) that rubs off to the touch, hence the plastic protective covering I guess, since the glass is actually more scratch resistanct than the protective covering.
@whybe, because it has the plastic covering on the top until I actually removed the module it wasn't clear if it was glass or not. But with the module removed you can see the glass layer side on and it's obviously glass. And of course with the plastic layer removed it makes the "plink" sound, and is scratch hard to scratch like glass.
Out of curiosity, I just smashed the glass layer(it took a fair bit of force too), and underneath that is another hard plastic layer (not glass) and underneath that the lcd itself.
Actually it's been quite fun destroying this phone!
_________________
Tricks and Tricks for K800 File System Tweaks for K750
[ This Message was edited by: max_wedge on 2008-09-22 16:28 ]
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Posted: 2008-09-22 17:15:44
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On 2008-09-22 17:15:44, max_wedge wrote:
Actually it's been quite fun destroying this phone!
I better make sure my phones are not close to you
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Posted: 2008-09-22 17:47:09
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Ok, I'll accept there's some glass in there as a layer within that top laminate, but you accept that another necessary ingredient in that laminate is plastic, and that's what really gives it the flexibility (while the glass holds its shape). The point is, one of those thin plastic layers is on top, and while the glass underneath may be scratch proof, the plastic is not.
In other words, the screen is not hard, it's soft! It will flex, and it can be scratched. That's not to say the Iphone or Ipod Touch screen can't be (I'm not sure if that's actual glass either tbh) but I'm pretty certain it's less prone, since they can use a much harder, denser material.
Anyway, you'll be pleased to know that screen protectors are already available -
http://www.funkyafone.co.uk/product.aspx?id=5459
EDIT: I did a little research, and the screen on the Ipod Touch (and Iphone) is indeed solid, optical glass -
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=7865576 - some still claim that a screen protector is a good idea, but nobody's reported actually scratching one..
[ This Message was edited by: Boinng on 2008-09-22 17:41 ]
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Posted: 2008-09-22 17:49:26
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T-mobile in London has confirmed the X1..I guess this gives some hope for those of you in the US....
http://blogs.zdnet.com/mobile-gadgeteer/?p=1451[ This Message was edited by: lcrkz0023 on 2008-09-22 17:08 ]
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Posted: 2008-09-22 18:08:15
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