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Superluminova Posts: > 500
I'm thinking of getting a one of these new mac's myself, but i'm abit unsure of the switch from windows to mac, i've used mac's before but never 24/7 would you guys say i'd be best to buy a mac mini to test on before getting a imac or macbook?
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Posted: 2006-01-15 02:40:29
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I love my iBook....
Using my friends XP based computer is a bind...
but for some things... like the SE update service... only windows will do... sadly....
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Posted: 2006-01-15 03:00:30
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The old "mac's don't get viruses line" is perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever heard said in the debate mac versus pc. My PC's don't get viruses. Admitedly they are properly protected, but also remember Mac's aren't a target of virus writers so of course they don't get viruses, that's no reflection on the strength of the Mac OS. If it was a target it would be hit just as hard as Windows.
Obviously there's some truth in that. If the Mac OS had 90% of the market then yes, it would be targetted more by virus writers, however it doesn't mean they'd be as successful.
The Mac OS
IS more secure than Windows by design. Anyone can write a self-replicating virus for Windows that spreads using security weaknesses in Outlook and the OS. Anyone can make trojans etc. that install themselves into Windows invisibly without any user intervention at all.
The Mac OS just doesn't have methods in the OS for a virus to self-replicate like a Windows virus does. It is impossible for any piece of software (malware) to install itself on a Mac without the user being presented with a dialog asking for the admin password.
I'm not saying that viruses and malware is impossible on a Mac, just that they would be much harder to write to have any wide effect because they just wouldn't have the means to propagate as they do in Windows, even if the Mac had 90% market-share.
I could easily write a program (AppleScript) for the Mac that could email itself to everybody in the address book. But I couldn't make it do it without the user knowing about it. And when the email arrived at the other end, it would do nothing. I couldn't make an email and attachment that would automatically run, install and take over the whole machine or do anything untoward. It's just not possible. That ability simply isn't a feature of the OS.
Any viruses/malware on the Mac would be severely limited in their ability to spread very far and do much at all without the user explicitly allowing it.
But that's where the Mac OS is exactly the same as Windows... the security vulnerability is in the user, not the Operating System. If the user is tricked into running something that isn't what they think it is, then things could be done to their computer - but on a Mac,
only their local computer - not automatically spread to other remote computers.
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Posted: 2006-01-15 11:04:50
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i think with apples market share increasing it wont be long until we see a lot of viruses being written for mac OS
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Posted: 2006-01-15 11:11:55
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On 2006-01-15 02:40:29, Superluminova wrote:
I'm thinking of getting a one of these new mac's myself, but i'm abit unsure of the switch from windows to mac, i've used mac's before but never 24/7 would you guys say i'd be best to buy a mac mini to test on before getting a imac or macbook?
nah, I made the change myself about 5 months back, I used to be a heavy pc user and knew all the stuff pc's, and at 1st i did find the change a bit confusing and even now there are some things I cannot do and have to ask the high end users like Jools (again thanks for all the help) but to be honnest I bought my mac in the idea to sell it on for profit, but in the end I played on it and liked it so much even after the 1st day of owning it I didnt use my pc, and that has continued as the only thing I achualyl need a pc for is databases (all mine are in access and I havent looked for a compatable mac one) turbo lister (they have things like garage sale and isale) but none of those are free so I dont use them, but I did find them much easier to use, and the sony ericsson bits. Personally I would say just go for it and buy a macbook pro, you will love it.
Im so glad apple are beating dell lol
also the comments about the flexibilit of macs, I kinda see what you mean but I dont agree with it, I am a media student, but I dont really do lots of editing on my mac or media things, I use it mainly for just plain work such as essays etc. I also find its alot faster to do things on it, and that the os as a whole is better, and there are still mutiple ways of doing things.
The whole idea that mac is designed for people who are not smart enough or have the skills to use a pc is a complete bull s**t. Many of the mac users are very tallented people, take jools for example, I believe he designs webpages, and I also have reasons to believe he is very good at it, most windows users cannot do that. I think that prehaps the argument should be, if people grew up using macs rather then windows would people consider using windows these days, or would it have similar views as apple do now? Also if apple didnt make their os only work on one kind of machine back in the 80's would it be more widely used now?
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Posted: 2006-01-15 13:46:44
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Quote:But that's where the Mac OS is exactly the same as Windows... the security vulnerability is in the user, not the Operating System. If the user is tricked into running something that isn't what they think it is, then things could be done to their computer - but on a Mac, only their local computer - not automatically spread to other remote computers.
I agree 100%. A fully maintained windows installation (ie. with all of the critical updates) is surprisingly safe from viruses, even without a third party antivirus app runing in the background. But if the user goes merrily opening unknown attachments and MSN file transfers, or clicking 'yes' to view certain websites then no security system in the world is going to stop a virus getting on! If you allow something, you deserve all you get! We call them 'happy clickers' at work
I tend to use Mandriva linux alot nowadays which has similar systems in place to macOS. Installing things requires root privalages and self-extracting installers are something of a rarity, meaning that the average user struggles to install a genuine app, never mind a virus or other malware.
But that's the whole point of Windows, it's designed to be easy to use for non technical users. It's difficult to find the right balance between ease of use and security, imagine if you had restart the computer in safe mode with networking and log in as Administrator every time you wanted to play an online game, the frustration factor would be unbearable.
So whilst I'm in no way a fan of M$, I don't think it's fair to slate their OS's for security vulnerabilities too much. Certain parts of the OS do have to be 'left open' in order to make it flexible and easy to use. It's fairer to criticise the ignorance and stubbornness of some users who blame the computer for getting viruses and malware rather than themselves.
Sure, not everybody wants to be a computer geek and quite rightly too, but surely it's not asking too much of someone to learn the basics of computing, with particular emphasis on safe usage and security? Imagine that you've never driven a car before and then one day, you jump into a V12 turbo and crash it almost immediately. Who's to blame, the car or you?
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Posted: 2006-01-15 14:19:48
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On 2006-01-15 14:19:48, Cycovision wrote:
Quote:But that's where the Mac OS is exactly the same as Windows... the security vulnerability is in the user, not the Operating System. If the user is tricked into running something that isn't what they think it is, then things could be done to their computer - but on a Mac, only their local computer - not automatically spread to other remote computers.
So whilst I'm in no way a fan of M$, I don't think it's fair to slate their OS's for security vulnerabilities too much. Certain parts of the OS do have to be 'left open' in order to make it flexible and easy to use. It's fairer to criticise the ignorance and stubbornness of some users who blame the computer for getting viruses and malware rather than themselves.
Sure, not everybody wants to be a computer geek and quite rightly too, but surely it's not asking too much of someone to learn the basics of computing, with particular emphasis on safe usage and security? Imagine that you've never driven a car before and then one day, you jump into a V12 turbo and crash it almost immediately. Who's to blame, the car or you?
I think you raise a fair point there, I know a ton of people who complain their ps is slow, and they blame it on the hard disc being full or not haiving enough space, whereas its achually because they have installed a ton of shitty and useless programs which run process in the background etc, I think that the whole system should be changed, and prehaps the govenmet set up a national training program, as its not the 21st centuray and alot of people have no idea of the risks and implementations of installing a peice of software. I also know of people who blame their pc's for loosing work etc as they have a virus on their system and then they wonder why the system crashes.
It is time for people to take responsability for their actions when it comes to computers as cyco says
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Posted: 2006-01-15 14:36:02
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agree wholeheartedly. There is an art to setting up windows, whereas you can open a new mac and use it. But once a windows system has been properly setup then it is equally as secure as MAC. As cyco says, it's then the end use that is the weakest point.
Regarding stability etc, I also find that I have no problem with this. My windows machines rarely crash. Also a year ago I left a job where I was responsible for a couple of hundred windows machines - these also rarely crashed (downtime was money to my employer) and rarely got viruses. Yet the other day I was playing with a friends powerbook and it crashed twice. Later I had to restart the machine to install a print driver! Restarting machines to perform such basic tasks is something microsoft has actively sought to eliminate from their os due to user complaints about it.
I find that when a mac machine crashes the mac user just seems to be blind to it, like it was just some sort of insignificant glitch, but when it happens to a windows machine it's some sort of Microsoft conspiracy to give us all shitty computers. Likewise if a windows machine has to be restarted to install something it's a design fault, but when a mac has to restart it's because of "better security"
Don't get me wrong, I actually like mac, no doubt. It's a sweet operating system - especially now with it's unix underpinnings. My objection is never towards the mac itself, but to the arrogant presumption of superiority that even lay users often come out with.
For instance my friend with the crashing powerbook, who knows nothing about computers, told me straight faced (this on the same day it crashed twice) that she'd never buy a Windows machine because they crash all the time!
Windows IS more sensitive to crashing, but if you resist the urge to run 1300 background processes that you don't really need, wow guess what - you don't have a problem with system resources and don't have to restart every two hours. Most of the problems with windows crashing is due to poorly designed software. So choose your software carefully and sparingly, run firewall and AV software, and you should have very few problems with your PC.
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Posted: 2006-01-16 00:55:12
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max, I think you summed up alot of my own thoughts as well.. (though i'm not a fan of mac os.. i have everything from about the mac plus up to thank for that btw
)
Any computer can become a plague ridden corpse of a machine if left to users who have no sense about what they install and more importantly what they choose not to uninstall from their computers.
I'm quite picky but at the same time run alot of background crap, but if i was going off the windows descriptions i read here i'd be resetting ... hourly.
User maintainence needs to happen no matter what the os/hardware is. It's a fact of computing life. I can't say i've had to reboot anytime soon, last time I turned off was to up the ram to 3gb. (by choice, not by neccessity
)
Heck if you really need to, I don't see why you couldn't dualboot win/mac os on the same pc, use the windows side for updating your phone etc, or anything you might need to convert to something on the mac side, and vice versa.
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Posted: 2006-01-16 03:15:33
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On 2006-01-16 00:55:12, max_wedge wrote:
Regarding stability etc, I also find that I have no problem with this. My windows machines rarely crash. Also a year ago I left a job where I was responsible for a couple of hundred windows machines - these also rarely crashed (downtime was money to my employer) and rarely got viruses. Yet the other day I was playing with a friends powerbook and it crashed twice. Later I had to restart the machine to install a print driver! Restarting machines to perform such basic tasks is something microsoft has actively sought to eliminate from their os due to user complaints about it.
I think your friend may have some faulty hardware in her powerbook if it crashes like that, my mac is over 3 years old, and since ive had it (over 6months ago) it has never crashed from any problem except a hardware fault. Also defending macs again I have onyl had to restart when installing things liek the os, but when I used windows alot more I had to restart alot when installing normal programs.
Alot of what you said does to make ssense and I can agree with it, but for me it got to the stage where I couldnt even open/run itunes on my pc, I didnt give up straight away, I asked cyco and basically he said I needed to do a whole system reinstall and I really couldnt be bothered, so I bought this mighty beast (which i love lol)
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Posted: 2006-01-16 17:02:03
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