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Another thing if these scripts are the “word” of god, and god can apparently see in the future then should he/she/it not of said “kill animals the halal way up until the 20th century when people will develop less painful ways of killing.” Or something like that?
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Posted: 2006-02-01 14:20:32
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On 2006-02-01 13:57:25, max_wedge wrote:
...I sure as shit know that whether I feel pain or not, I'd be scared stupid and suffer intense emotional trauma if my blood was spilling out in front of my eyes and I was losing control of my bodily functions. The view that halal method causes no suffering presupposes that the animal is not a conscious being...
Max, I completely agree with you on this point.
As for axxxr, who replied to my previous post as follows:
"And your basically saying that a bullet through the head of the animal is not painfull for the creature?..from all the books ive read it says that death is painfull in all living creatures regardless of how quick it is..Maybe they do die in a milisecond or however long it takes for the creature to die,but i have read that animals which are slaughtered the Islamic or Jewish way suffer less aswell because the way the knife us used the blood drains away from the brain at a excellerated rate which in turn puts the animal into sleep and then death....somehow the idea of blowing the animals brains out with a automatic weapon does'nt seem like a painless and humane way to slaughter the creature."
First of all I was not campaigning against the slaughter of animals for food. I eat meat, and I completely recognise that animals have to be killed in order for meat to be available. I just don't agree with the unnecessary suffering of animals in the process. I was trying to put across the distaste to which I feel when encountering the practice of halal butchering. When you say "blowing the animals brains out with a [sic] automatic weapon", I really feel that you don't know what you are talking about. The animals to which I was previously referring were cattle. When killing a cow, a metal rod is fired directly into the front of its skull. Thus, the metal rod disrupts all activity in the brain within milliseconds (i.e. there is no longer consciousness). Death is virtually instantaneous.
An animal which is slaughtered by means of the halal method of butchery will in essence bleed to death (and even if you claim that the incision prevents pain, this is a cruel practice. You completely ignore the fact that a sentient being is being bled to death). This is a cruel practice, no matter how you qualify it.
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Posted: 2006-02-02 02:24:40
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@joe, yes they are mentioned in the Quraan how to kill livestock.
Here are a few verses.
http://www.angelfire.com/il2/islamicpage/halalhealthy/quranhadith
in relation to the quoted
"Another thing if these scripts are the “word” of god, and god can apparently see in the future then should he/she/it not of said “kill animals the halal way up until the 20th century when people will develop less painful ways of killing.” Or something like that? "
But as said, the way that you kill 'the Halal way' is the best way of harming an animal the least amount. Again, not all people can afford putting an animal to sleep, not all people would have this sleeping drug with them (lets say in a less developed area) and so on, so at the end of the day it's up to large corporations to aid in providing the sleeping drugs.
The world of God or any God for that matter, is never going to be too specific, actually it's more realistic.
I could simply say, study hard until there is a way to be smart without studying. Doesn't mean I foresaw the future, it simply means that I'm implying that the day might be possible.
So until then might as well try to not harm the animal as much as possible until the government or corporations stick their heads in and say, hey, lets give these people incentives for using sleeping pills.
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Posted: 2006-02-02 04:18:01
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I dont see anything wrong with cutting the animal, Iv cut a couple times and there wasnt much suffering from the animal as far as i could see, he kicked and stuff but in a couple of seconds it was all over...
I for some reason see it to be more inhumane by just shooting the thing with a metal rod!! WTF... maybe im just wierd...
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Posted: 2006-02-02 07:29:44
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Yes exactly i agree,I just can't see shooting the animal in the brains is any less humane than cutting with a knife.
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Posted: 2006-02-02 10:25:18
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The quickest means of killing the animal that causes the least pain is the most humane. I would have thought that a shot to the brain would be fairly quick and that that death would be almost instantaneous thus not giving the animal any time to feel anything.
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Posted: 2006-02-02 11:06:39
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Well if want to play Terminator and just go shooting animals like that.. thats not humane to me... sorry.
But thats the way we do it, the way the jews do it, and the way it will always be done!
So all you SPCA wannabes and your love and faithulness to your beloved animals can stuff it! Lifes about pain.
The whole food chain and shit.
Deal with it!!!!!!!
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Posted: 2006-02-02 11:22:37
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On 2006-02-02 11:06:39, scotsboyuk wrote:
The quickest means of killing the animal that causes the least pain is the most humane. I would have thought that a shot to the brain would be fairly quick and that that death would be almost instantaneous thus not giving the animal any time to feel anything.
Who's to know if death is less painfull that way?...no one can really quantify death in any way,so we really don't know if instant death has no pain involved..maybe pain is slow and lingering even affter a shot to the brain?..or maybe it is instant and the animal feels nothing,its a difficult one.
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Posted: 2006-02-02 11:28:20
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I'D say a shotgun to the head would probably be the quickest way, as the brain will (or head) will probably be in quite a few pieces.....
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Posted: 2006-02-02 12:07:43
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On 2006-02-02 11:22:37, 786KBR wrote:
Well if want to play Terminator and just go shooting animals like that.. thats not humane to me... sorry.
But thats the way we do it, the way the jews do it, and the way it will always be done!
So all you SPCA wannabes and your love and faithulness to your beloved animals can stuff it! Lifes about pain.
The whole food chain and shit.
Deal with it!!!!!!!
Apart from sounding like a complete ass you also demonstrate a lack of understanding of the concept of hypocrisy. Let's just examine this for a second; you consider shooting an animal to be barbaric, yet you don't consider slicing an animal open and allowing it to bleed to death to be? It may very well be a religious matter, but one can equally couche it in the same absurd terminology that you have employed (and I haven't done that hear in case you are wondering).
Why exactly is it that you would choose to liken the slaughter of animals for food to a futuristic cyborg programmed to kill? Clearly you are aiming to create a comparison of barbarity and inhumanity. The killing of animals for food is not done through a desire to kill or for a political motive, it is done simply to provide food. Clearly you feel threatened by the implication that the method of slaughter you advocate is not the most humane available and so you seek to denigrate a different method in the hopes of casting aspertions on the humanity of that method. Unfortunately you go about it in completely the wrong way. By choosing a rediculous and tenebrous analogy you only serve to make your case look peurile.
You are either extremely naive or remarkably uninformed. I eat meat as part of my diet, that does not mean to say that I have any desire to inflict anymore suffering upon an animal than is absolutely necessary to obtain that meat. I would advocate the buying of meat from sources where the well being of the animals has been attended to and where the animals have not suffered unnecessarily.
Your last comments seem to indicate that you are not concerned with the well being of animals. Perhaps I am wrong, but the miasma of incongruity which permeates your post seems to suggest otherwise.
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"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC
[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-02 11:45 ]
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Posted: 2006-02-02 12:41:51
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