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Imagine you were in a country where a load of lads a couple of year’s younger were throwing stones at you, even if you didn’t really want to be there and you were only there to help. Would you be pissed off and want to give them a slap?

What these soldiers did was wrong, but none of use know there mentality.

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Posted: 2006-02-14 18:58:55
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just as someone said to me in another thread. If you dont like it or dont want to do something "you should stand up"
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Posted: 2006-02-14 19:00:10
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On 2006-02-14 18:54:56, scotsboyuk wrote:
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On 2006-02-14 18:45:50, slattery69 wrote:

depends what you meen by trained many soldier over there are nothing more than ta soldiers with minimal basic training. also many of the soldiers there are not much more than kids themselves. i think we shouldnt buy into the myth that the british army is some highly trained machine those days are long gone many of the people on the ground have limited education and skills and join the army as a last resort


I can see where you are coming from with this. However, I must disagree. The British Army is one of the most highly trained forces in the world and the level of training provided is substantial compared with most other armies around the world. The army isn't training people to be intellectuals, they are training people to be good soldiers who can handle themselves well under stress.

I don't think that it is a sufficient excuse to say that emotions were running high. British soldiers are trained to act professionaly in such situations.

Even if we were to use that excuse it still does not account for the role the sergeant played in the matter. He is supposed to be leading men and should be a capable soldier who is able to conduct himself well in difficult situations and lead by example.

im not excusing it at all i think its a horrible act theyve commited but no matter how much training we like to thing people are given until they are out there nobody knows how someone will truely react. it doesnt excuse the behaviour though

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-14 17:56 ]

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Posted: 2006-02-14 19:00:50
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@joe

I think there is a difference between a 'slap' and a vicious beating. As I said these soldiers are supposed to act professionaly in stressful situations. If it hadn't been soldiers one might understand someone losing their head in such a situation, but these men are supposed to be able to handle such situations.
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Posted: 2006-02-14 19:03:22
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@scots

Yes i guess you right there (as always )
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Posted: 2006-02-14 19:07:01
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Quote:
On 2006-02-14 19:00:50, slattery69 wrote:

im not excusing it at all i think its a horrible act theyve commited but no matter how much training we like to thing people are given until they are out there nobody knows how someone will truely react. it doesnt excuse the behaviour though

Of course we can't fully understand what was going through their heads, but I have to wonder at why they did this. These men are trained well, the British Armed Forces does train its people to a very high standard, so one has to ask why they did not act like professional soldiers. Such training is designed to ensure that soldiers don't flip out when under pressure in situations more serious than people throwing stones at them.

I can appreciate them feeling angry, but this was a complete overreaction. In addition there was a cameraman cheering them on! There was also another soldier standing by who looked unsure of the whole scene from what I hear. Hence one has doubts over whether these men were indeed overcome by anger and in some sort of uncontrolable rage.
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Posted: 2006-02-14 19:14:38
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On 2006-02-14 18:54:25, amnesia wrote:
@slattery, I'm going to make a funny skit to show what I see the soldiers help as, as soon as Omar feels better.

but to get the jist.

*man sitting on sidewalk*
*American walks up*
Am- Hey there.
Man- Hi.
Am - can I help you?
Man - no thank you, dont need help.
*American grabs mans arm*
Am- LET ME HELP YOU!
Man - No!!!! Get off me!
Am- NO! YOU NEED HELP! *punches Man in the face*
Man- Get away from me!!!!! *punches back*
*American reaches for radio*
Am- breaker I've got a situation here, man is refusing help and stopping freedom from commencing, how shall I proceed?
Breaker- Uh, just kick him in the nuts when no one's looking.



and whats the skit supposed to prove. i ve already said what they did was wrong but in that sort of situation i can see how people can over react in the same way i can see how iraqi people can over react to seeing there country been ran by forgein forces
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Posted: 2006-02-14 19:16:51
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Quote:
On 2006-02-14 19:14:38, scotsboyuk wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-02-14 19:00:50, slattery69 wrote:

im not excusing it at all i think its a horrible act theyve commited but no matter how much training we like to thing people are given until they are out there nobody knows how someone will truely react. it doesnt excuse the behaviour though

Of course we can't fully understand what was going through their heads, but I have to wonder at why they did this. These men are trained well, the British Armed Forces does train its people to a very high standard, so one has to ask why they did not act like professional soldiers. Such training is designed to ensure that soldiers don't flip out when under pressure in situations more serious than people throwing stones at them.

I can appreciate them feeling angry, but this was a complete overreaction. In addition there was a cameraman cheering them on! There was also another soldier standing by who looked unsure of the whole scene from what I hear. Hence one has doubts over whether these men were indeed overcome by anger and in some sort of uncontrolable rage.



i think you have to look at the wider situation as well, many of these soldiers will have been told they were going to help the people lets not forget all british people were lied to over the reasons for going to war.
when they get there the situation is very different from what theyve been told the reaction from the people isnt one of joy , quite the opposite. they may have lost friend and commrades.
also most people who work on here will have recieved training to do there jobs do you never make a mistake despite your training? i wager we all do exepect many of us thankfully dont have to deal with things like this
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Posted: 2006-02-14 19:21:13
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lol...
about the minority bit...
theres bout 10,000 british troops in iraq...somehtignlike that...

theres 1600000000 muslims...
even if there were 1 million extremist muslims that would account for 0.000625% of the total!

say there were 100 'stupid' or utterly mean british troops thats bout 0.01%

thats much more than 30 times...

so much for minorities hey...
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Posted: 2006-02-14 19:22:05
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@slattery

I can appreciate that it must be tough for them over there, but I think this is really over the top and completely uncalled for. Even if those soldiers had been overcome with rage that still doesn't explain the cameraman or the other soldier who was apparently unsure of the situation. They could have intervened and at least tried to stop the beating. Weren't there also soldiers who walked past in the video and cheered them on? If so one can again ask why they did nothing to stop the attack.

Of course we are speculating on the mindset of the people involved here, but I do wonder at how supposedly professional soldiers could do that.

@dealer

That analysis isn't really accurate since it isn't using substantiated figures as well as the groups being numerically different. There is also the fact that the situations aren't really the same.

_________________
"I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober, and you will still be ugly." WSC

[ This Message was edited by: scotsboyuk on 2006-02-14 18:51 ]
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Posted: 2006-02-14 19:46:44
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