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> Help wanted: Nokia N70 or SE K800?
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mr_lou
They are just as “real” software as Symbian software
Java apps are real but very rudimentary compared to Symbian. Even now there is no camera/music player program using Java. On my N70, I have 3rd party camera/music apps which outperform the built-in ones. And for games, if you have played Symbian games then trust me, you would not want to touch Java games anymore.
Like a PC, N70 is "upgradable" ie. you can upgrade the functions with 3rd party apps. If you dont like how the built-in calendar/contact/camera work u have the option to replace them. Or add new functions or replace any functions which are outdated. Even a 3-4years old S60 phone like 6600 can have independent voice dialing (i.e. without the need to first record a sample sound) or have your SMSes read out to you once u receive them.
My point was exactly that I’m pretty much stuck at one location.
I'm really surprise to hear this. If I am not mistaken a cellular base station can serve an area of 200-500metres radius.
And I’m sure it can also be coded using J2ME along with additional API’s. ...Keep in mind that J2ME applications can run in the background nowadays.
Like I say it would not work because once you put Java in background that program is suspended. Even if you run such Java in foreground, it would not be feasible as the only way for Java to determine whether there is a change in base-station connection is to continuously check for it. This will suck all the battery out of the phone very fast.
So for any complex apps that integrates capability of phone/wireless/camera/UI/sound to be feasible u need an advance pre-emtive OS like Symbian with full native API support.
Without offence, the K800 is just like a programmable calculator and N70 is like a full-blown WinXP computer. In terms of (software) functional capability (except hardware related like camera sensor), the reality is that N70 outperforms K800 in everything.
Unless the camera is the ONLY deciding factor, imo N70 is a much better phone. And it is cheaper also. btw: N70 2MP camera do take very good picture. WIth the latest N70 firmware the speed has improve considerably. Of course not as fast as a normal phone but still very much usable.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2006-08-15 06:15 ]
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Posted: 2006-08-15 05:04:48
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Go for k800!!!
regards........
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Posted: 2006-08-15 05:10:15
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mib1800
Java apps are real but very rudimentary compared to Symbian. Even now there is no camera/music player program using Java.
True that there's no camera/music player other that the built-in ones. I also doubt anyone can make software that makes better use of SE's camera. (With Nokia it's not such a big surprise that someone can make better apps than the supplied ones). Anyway, for those who really needs to be able to play OGG or another format, I'm sure it'll come soon. Personally I'd like to be able to play SID files on my phone, and I can see now that such a player is already being developed. Untill then, I don't have a problem converting my SID files into MP3 if I really want to listen to them on my phone, but so far I'll wait.
On my N70, I have 3rd party camera/music apps which outperform the built-in ones. And for games, if you have played Symbian games then trust me, you would not want to touch Java games anymore.
But I have played Symbian games, and they really don’t impress me that much. Name a few examples then. Perhaps I’ve just avoided the best games somehow.
Like a PC, N70 is "upgradable" ie. you can upgrade the functions with 3rd party apps. If you dont like how the built-in calendar/contact/camera work u have the option to replace them. Or add new functions or replace any functions which are outdated. Even a 3-4years old S60 phone like 6600 can have independent voice dialing (i.e. without the need to first record a sample sound) or have your SMSes read out to you once u receive them.
That is true. That is the advantage of a PDA / smartphone. If you need this advantage or not is another issue.
I'm really surprise to hear this. If I am not mistaken a cellular base station can serve an area of 200-500metres radius.
Really? I thought they ranged a bigger radius. Now you got me curious if I can do that with J2ME. I will investigate.
Like I say it would not work because once you put Java in background that program is suspended.
That is not true. Granted, some phones can’t run midlets in the background (I’m guessing Nokia phones), but Sony Ericsson phones can.
Even if you run such Java in foreground, it would not be feasible as the only way for Java to determine whether there is a change in base-station connection is to continuously check for it. This will suck all the battery out of the phone very fast.
Not true either. The following is a quite from the Sony Ericsson knowledge base:
“If you let a MIDlet continue to run in the background, you should take care to minimize any execution so that you do not unnecessarily execute code that drain battery. If you for example have an animation thread running and let it continue while the MIDlet's in the background, it can drain power rather quickly without doing much good for the user. On the other hand, if you for example would like to periodically check a network connection or similar, it's possible to implement a timer that fires an event at some suitable interval and causes processing only at those preferably short times of execution.
Normally the MIDlets are event driven and consume CPU cycles only when some event needs to be handled.”
That article applies to both MIDP 1.0 and MIDP 2.0 and T610, T616, T618, T628, T630, T637, Z600, Z608, Z1010, K500, K506, K508, K700, Z500, S700, V800, P800, P802, P900, P908 and P910.
Without offence, the K800 is just like a programmable calculator and N70 is like a full-blown WinXP computer. In terms of (software) functional capability (except hardware related like camera sensor), the reality is that N70 outperforms K800 in everything.
I’m trying to tell you, that that is not true anymore. It used to be true with Java phones yes, but as I initially said, Java isn’t as restricted as most people think anymore. I’m saying that, a Java phone today can do most the stuff a smart-phone can do.
From the start I have agreed with you that “Symbian OS” is better than “no Symbian OS”. But I’m not agreeing with you, and cannot agree with you, that the N70 beats the K800 just because it has Symbian.
Manuel_max
She's buying the K800 today.
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Posted: 2006-08-15 08:03:19
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mr_lou
Symbian games, and they really don’t impress me that much. Name a few examples then
Well, have you try skyforce, cosmic fighters, doom, superminers, alphalt gt or some of the n-gage games?
If you need this advantage or not is another issue.
I think most people would want it if they knew about it. For me I like those that automate my daily routines such as the automatic switching of profile based on event/location. Of course, I also cannot do without my call management software which schedule/filter/record/reject my calls based on events or time period.
would like to periodically check a network connection or similar, it's possible to implement a timer that fires an event at some suitable interval
Even if it can run in the background or use timer, it still doesnt solve anything. Setting your timer too long defeats the purpose and setting it too short results in same problem of battery drain. Correct me if I'm wrong but currently in the K800 there is no way for phone kernel events/messages to filter thru to Java. And Java cannot cooperate or pre-empt or share memory with phone kernel processes.
I’m saying that, a Java phone today can do most the stuff a smart-phone can do.
Let me ask you a question. If Java is so powerful and fully implemented in SE phones, why do you think SE wants to pursue UIQ3/Symbian for its more advanced phones like M600/p990?
Furthermore, support for Java is so varied among manufacturers. K800 may have most extensive support for Java but software developers may just develop for the lowest denomination of Java so as to support as many phones as possible. So it is a chicken and egg problem.
but so far I'll wait.
Frankly, I think it will be a unending wait.
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Posted: 2006-08-15 11:13:43
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regardless of all the features of the N70, the fact it is so slow and the keypad is so un-user friendly renders it pretty useless to me.
I had mine for 3 months before selling it and getting a w800.
if you dont want something that is quick, smooth running and user friendly then go for the N70
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Posted: 2006-08-15 11:21:05
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J-J
if you dont want something that is quick, smooth running and user friendly then go for the N70
Like I say with the latest firmware N70 speed has improved. Quick is a relative term. For example, if N70 is slower by 0.5-1 sec in opening a message/menu bothers you so much then so be it. But to majority of people they will say you are nit-picking.
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Posted: 2006-08-15 11:32:21
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Is Ver 5 the latest software?
Coz it sucks!!! Drops calls looses 3G signal in full 3G coverage, When Memories full the phones very slow, call logs disapear, crappy cam, small buttons, chat applications run slow and freeze etc etc...
N70 here in SA is the worst phone on the market, very popular but crap Nokia SA will give you an N80 if scream loud enough at them!!
But N80 is another story...
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Posted: 2006-08-15 11:43:38
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Quote:
On 2006-08-15 11:32:21, mib1800 wrote:
Like I say with the latest firmware N70 speed has improved. Quick is a relative term. For example, if N70 is slower by 0.5-1 sec in opening a message/menu bothers you so much then so be it. But to majority of people they will say you are nit-picking.
The speed alone may be nit-picking but coupled with poor build quality and not being user friendly then for me personally it adds up to not being a very good phone.
Another thing with the speed is that the phone doesnt have the ability to catch up with you.
Once you have been using the phone for a while you learn where everything in the menu system is, unfortunately you have to load each menu individually as it wont allow you to press the menu options and then the phone catch you up.
Everyones requirements for a phone are different and therefore different phones will suit different people, i can only comment on the experiences i have had with with my requirements.
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Posted: 2006-08-15 12:41:25
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j-j
with poor build quality
I think you r not being objective. Other than the camera slide, the rest of N70 is solidly built with high quality plastic. The keypad is firm and nice and dont emit loud sound like the K750/800. And it doesnt have the infamous SE crap joystick that breaks very often.
Another thing with the speed is that the phone doesnt have the ability to catch up with you.
hmmm.... How is it that mine can. Say I press menu-key, 3 and 1 keys quickly the phone will catch up and start the prog at position 1 in within submenu located at position 3.
[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2006-08-15 12:03 ]
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Posted: 2006-08-15 13:01:29
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mib1800
Well, have you try skyforce, cosmic fighters, doom, superminers, alphalt gt or some of the n-gage games?
I’ve tried Doom, but not the other ones, but as far as I know “Sky Force” exists for J2ME as well.
Doom is a 3D game ported from the good old DOS PCs, and with the 3D API’s for J2ME you can make much better 3D games than that one.
N-Gage is another thing. It’s built for games and can’t be compared in my opinion.
Even if it can run in the background or use timer, it still doesnt solve anything. Setting your timer too long defeats the purpose and setting it too short results in same problem of battery drain. Correct me if I'm wrong but currently in the K800 there is no way for phone kernel events/messages to filter thru to Java. And Java cannot cooperate or pre-empt or share memory with phone kernel processes.
Yes, it will use battery (duh), but since K800-battery has about twice the amount of talk time as an N70 has, I’m sure K800 can manage.
I’m still not saying that a J2ME device is better than or equal to a Symbian device, but since you turned this thread into a discussion about how many things J2ME can do that Symbian can do, I am telling you. Correct, you need an Operating System to have Operating System abilities. I am not saying that a J2ME device can do everything a Symbian device can do. I am saying that a J2ME device can do most stuff a Symbian device can do.
It was at this point the thread was turned into a debate about how many things J2ME can do that Symbian can do. And ofcourse J2ME cannot do OS stuff, but it can do many things similar to OS stuff, and the average user pretty much doesn’t care what happens on the technical level. Infact, the average user (excluding geeks here) would probably prefer the J2ME device because it’s simpler and safer to use (virus and such).
Let me ask you a question. If Java is so powerful and fully implemented in SE phones, why do you think SE wants to pursue UIQ3/Symbian for its more advanced phones like M600/p990?
I can find a bunch of reasons.
1. As I say (and this is the last time I’m repeating myself): “Symbian OS” is not the same as “No Symbian OS”. I am not claiming J2ME devices to be just as good as Symbian OS devices!. There are people who needs a phone with an Operating System, and Symbian is a cool OS. I’d pick Symbian any day over Windows CE (though Linux could be fun to try also).
2. Most people buying a Symbian OS device really doesn’t need it. They could have settled for a J2ME device, but they don’t know, so they want it. Thus we have a demand.
3. Fashion statement. “I have the latest SE Symbian phone. I’m cool, because people say Symbian is cool”. . o O ( Thought I haven’t got the slightest clue what a SIS file is or how to install games)
4. A firm could need a Symbian device, because they need more freedom at a technical level. Maybe because they have developed an application in C++ for their former Windows CE PDA’s which they now want to port for Symbian (because they feel Windows CE and Microsoft are assholes for some reason).
Furthermore, support for Java is so varied among manufacturers. K800 may have most extensive support for Java but software developers may just develop for the lowest denomination of Java so as to support as many phones as possible. So it is a chicken and egg problem.
That could very well be the case, but it’s not what I see is going on at the developer forums I’m looking at. Typical developers develop for multiple devices at the same time using pre-processors in the source. Further more, these API’s are not exclusive anymore as they were in the beginning (Nokia’s UI only being present on Nokia phones and Siemens game API only being present on Siemens phones). Today they share the same API’s.
I don’t know how developers develop for Symbian, but as far as I know there are currently 6 versions of Symbian, and they are not compatible. With J2ME all MIDP1.0 stuff also works on MIDP2.0 phones.
J-J
if you dont want something that is quick, smooth running and user friendly then go for the N70
That was also the conclusion of my girlfriend. She’s even a Nokia user, but when she tried out both phones in the shop it didn’t take her long to decide the K800 was best.
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Posted: 2006-08-15 14:57:43
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