Market : Mobile phones for sale : Topscooby traded me a phone which has become blocked.
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it was a contract phone
but if you are trying to bar a payg you are going to need to know the imei and the phone number and the chances of someone else knowing that is very remote but as I have not barred a payg phone I don't have any real knowledge of how that works in practice
No!
You only need the IMEI number to barr a phone, and if you have a phone number they may ask you that.
Would be interesting to hear from a large dealer how they go about registering ALL of their phones, against a provider in case they have to barr.
[ This Message was edited by: Mamber on 2007-02-16 11:38 ]
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Posted: 2007-02-16 12:30:00
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it seems that your very unlucky then mamber, as what the networks should do is ensure that the phone number AND SIM NUMBER have been used with the devices IMEI within the last (i think) 6 months.
If not then they have to cross-refernce it with other details like the registered name on the sim card
they use the imei/sim number combination to track the device when it is reported stolen - as this IS kept by retailers who HAVE to pass the details to the manufacturer. Some retailers can also use credit or debit card details for the person who bought the phone to ensure that they are reported correctly
Even if the phone is bought with cash and the sim not registered, the police will still know which sim was bought with which phone - the only time this does not work is when phones are sold sim free, in which case they can be tracked anyway as the SIM number (not the phone number) and the IMEI are stored whenever the phone connects itself to the network.
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Posted: 2007-02-16 12:37:03
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On 2007-02-16 12:30:00, Mamber wrote:
No!
You only need the IMEI number to barr a phone, and if you have a phone number they may ask you that.
so you're suggesting that you can call up your phone company and give them any old IMEI and they will bar it?
I'd be very surprised and worried if that was the case, and it certainly wasn't in my example. I'm not able to find any official document that describes the procedure to get a phone barred, I keep coming up with just the
MOBILE TELEPHONES (RE-PROGRAMMING) ACT 2002
anyway, how it gets barred is a bit off topic for this thread, this is more about the repercussions of the actual event described and how that can be resolved
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Posted: 2007-02-16 12:42:48
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you need to be original owner to bar the phone, you need proof of purchase also
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Posted: 2007-02-16 12:48:21
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@solidsingh
Are you saying the provider can do this then, if the contract has not come to an end as I stated earlier?? We know this happens a lot, as they are the original owner.
@masseur
Yes you are correct it is WAY of topic, I will start another thread in the 'General' thread as I have another good debate about who owns a phone.
Sorry Mike, but good luck with your quest.
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Posted: 2007-02-16 13:18:08
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I know this is nothing to do with car, but surely the principles are the same?
Here
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Posted: 2007-02-16 13:42:26
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Mike.P deserves his full money back (or value of trade) - simple as, no excuses.
The only fair/generous stance for Topscooby is to allow him a week from today to solve the matter with the "ebay seller". As this is meant to be a friendly forum and everyone takes trust for granted, this is the only sympathetic approach towards Topscooby, that i see anyway.
Its true what Mike.P is saying in how would we react; i know i wouldnt take this lightly, or allow so much time to pass (though you did state you boxed the phone for a while) without resolving the situation one way or another, especially when a £200+ headset is involved.
Hope this gets settled peacefully and quickly, and doesnt put off Mike.P from dealing on these forums again, or deter other new members from using Esato
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Posted: 2007-02-16 13:43:48
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On 2007-02-16 13:18:08, Mamber wrote:
@solidsingh
Are you saying the provider can do this then, if the contract has not come to an end as I stated earlier?? We know this happens a lot, as they are the original owner.
@masseur
Yes you are correct it is WAY of topic, I will start another thread in the 'General' thread as I have another good debate about who owns a phone.
Sorry Mike, but good luck with your quest.
the provider can block the phone if you stop paying the bill yes, but i was talking about PAYG phones.
@t68i king
yes mike p does deserve a refund but under the eyes of the law, hes not entitled to a penny which is really stupid but thats just the way it is im afraid
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Posted: 2007-02-16 15:47:27
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As Mike has decided to open a thread about this phone in an open forum, for you all to read and comment on, i feel it only fair to post my side of the story.
I have been traded a blocked phone....my response!
As Mike outlined at the very beginning of this thread i entered into a trade with him which consisted of me selling a W810i and the Nokia 8800 to him in exchange for a W950i plus cash.
I originally purchased the 8800 via a BIN auction on ebay which was offered by a powerseller. The phone was described as brand new boxed and unmarked. This was at the beginning of november last year. When the phone arrived it had a couple of small scratches on the front case. I contacted the seller to ask for an explaination regarding the scratches on a phone he described as both brand new and unmarked. His reply, in a nutshell, was tough luck if you don't like it sell it to somebody else! I immediately contacted ebay and opened a dispute with them (via Paypal) about the condition i had received the phone in. In the end they found the case in the sellers favour as no proof existed as to whether or not the damage existed before i received it...wonderfull!
As i had planned to give the phone to my wife as a Christmas present i decided to sell it instead as i did'nt want to give it to her in that condition.
I advertised the phone for sale on this forum including in the description that it was marked. When Mike and i agreed our sale/trade i sent him the phone as well as the W810i. On receiving the phone Mike found a dent on the rear of the case that i had'nt even noticed myself. However, we were able to come to an amicable solution to resolve this problem. This was before Christmas last year.
When i sent Mike the phone it was in perfect working order and i had personally used it on three different networks (Orange, O2 and Voda).
Other than the additional damage that Mike found with the phone there was no mention of any other problem with the phone. And this is how it remained until earlier this week when i received a pm from Mike to say the phone had been barred as he could not use any of his sims in it.
I replyed to Mikes pm saying i was sorry to hear about the phone being barred and that i would do everything i could to resolve the situation. This included me trying to contact the person who had sold me the phone to try and find out why it was now barred. To this day all my messages and emails to him have been ignored! I also posted a thread on this forum asking if there was any other reason why a phone would suddenly become blocked other than it being reported as lost/stolen. It soon became clear that this was indeed the most obvious reason for it being blocked.
I sent Mike another pm to explain that as the phone was now more than likely subject to criminal activity that it would have to be reported to the police. It was at this stage that Mike explained that he had been in this situation before and suggested that i refund him his money and then to contact the person who sold me the phone on ebay to inform them that i would report them to the police for making a false insurance claim. He also added that he then normally accepted a 50% refund from the ebay seller and then made the rest of the money up by breaking the phone down and selling it for parts.
This did not seem a reasonable course of action for me to take as i had no proof that the person who sold me the phone was guilty of anything and that it could be the person who sold him the phone that could be responsible. It was at this stage that i sought legal advice.
It was as a result of this advice that i again pm'd Mike to confirm that it was nessasary to contact the police and make a complaint as this obviously needed to be investigated via the propper channels and by the correct authorities (i.e. the police). There was no way that i was going to try and agree any form of arrangement with the seller of the phone to me until it was established just who had committed a crime. I tried to reitterate with Mike, again by pm, that this was now a matter for the police to deal with and not either of us. I also explained that if the phone had indeed been repoted as either lost/stolen and a payment had been made by an insurance company then the rightful owner of the phone was now the insurance company and not Mike. This being the case we would both have been breaking the law if we had tried to dispose of the phone to anyone other than the police as they would need it as evidence to bring a prosecution.
It was at this stage that i assured Mike that i would be only too willing to give a full statement to the police on how, when, where and who i purchased the phone from including paper printouts from both ebay and Paypal. I acknowledged that it was him who was 'out of pocket' at this stage but that it was essential that we let the police handle the matter. I also assured Mike that if, as a result of any conviction of the person reponsible for the fraud, that i received any money back then i would, of course, refund him all his money.
Unfortunately Mike does not seem keen on using the correct method of seeing that the actual villain is caught and punished and is only concerned with me giving him his money back and thats all. He stated in one of his pm's to me that "it was'nt his problem" and that as he bought the phone from me he considered it my duty to make good over what someone else had done.
As i said to Mike, i will not accept either responsibillity or accountability for someone elses criminal actions. It is up to the police, the crown prosecution service and the courts to determine the outcome of this crime and not us. After all, that is what they are paid to do by us from our taxes...like it or not.
The whole problem of phones being sold and then blocked at a later date is getting out of hand and it is up to us to ensure that all criminal activity is reported to the police for the correct investigation. All the time we try and sideshift the problem to someone else or to make deals with the crooks then it will forever be OUR problem and the villians will laugh at US as they go and spend OUR hard earned cash!
I have told Mike he has my full support and cooperation regarding this matter but only if we approach it the correct way. And that correct way is called 'due process'. It is not the fastest process, but it is the correct one.
What really worries me is Mikes suggestion that he has considered getting the W950i i traded with him blocked! Is'nt this the exact problem that he has started this thread over? Would'nt it be ironic if the person who has got the 8800 blocked has done so because of a deal that did not go all their way???
I find it unbelieavable that a trusted trader on here could even consider such an action. How could anyone in the future trade with someone who has shown that they are willing to get phones blocked and, therefore, break the law themselves to the cost of innocent forum members!!!
Even after all this i will support Mike if he chooses to go to the police and still offer my help with a full statement of all the details...as it is the right thing to do.
I appologise for writing such a long reply and using up so much bandwidth!
I do not, however, appologise for wanting to take the correct route in seeing the criminal(s) behind all this bought to justice.
I thank you all for your time.
Topscooby.
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Posted: 2007-02-16 16:55:06
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HI,
i know this is not a good way to solve the problem but i think the phone will only be barred in the UK and you will be able to sell it on a european/ USA ebay site and get good money for it.
I know this not a good solution but i thought i would let you know.
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Posted: 2007-02-16 17:44:03
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