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Bravo. Someone who can think with clarity instead of fanaticism.
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Posted: 2007-09-19 06:13:20
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Amen to that!

I think thecoolsha has the right idea flagging this issue up.

If SE have something planned then they need to get their asses into gear and fast, they're just too slow bringing things out now and its turning into 'The Mouse that Roared'.

I remember reading an article a few years ago regarding the amount of money spends on R&D and it wasn't a small figure.

Sony Ericsson, 50% owned by Sony Corp - proprietors of Handycam and Cyber-Shot has a few devices right now that shoot at QVGA and these are years old. Why isn't this technology filtering through to its JV?

At the rate Samsung are releasing devices SE will be smothered under the sheer number of hi-tech devices emerging from other quarters; they can't really expect the K850i alone to compete with 3 devices from Samsung, 3 from Nokia and god only knows what else is in the pipeline from other OEMs.

Get a move on! Squeak!


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Posted: 2007-09-19 10:10:34
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@Prom 1

Yes the Q9 says it has video recording and playback @30fps but no mention at what resolution it could be qcif for all it says and i am pretty sure if it was VGA they would of made a big point of it. The very fact they omit what it works at to me suggests it's not that great and highly unlikely to be VGA IMO.

This is why such a big deal was made of the N93 as it was the first device to launch using the OMAP2420 chip with the full version of the Power VR MBX that enables video recording and playback @30fps VGA. Which has been followed by the N93i, N95 and E90.

Please correct me if i am wrong but as far as i am aware these are so far the only Mobile devices along with the Z8 that use this chip and offer this ability. Other devices can do 30fps but not in VGA as irrespective of their processor power they are missing the graphics chip's ability. After this is what we are talking about not 30fps but 30fps in VGA.

@>500

I am not having a go just pointing out the realities of life, if your VERY good source actually knows what he is talking about i couldn't know as obviously I don't know him. But find it extremely hard to believe if they had it knowing this is what so many want they would just take it out, as that just isn't as easy as it sounds or makes any sense either but if we believed half the things that come from "reliable sources" our devices would all be very different by now.

Remember reliable sources claimed the P990 would get the same firmware as the P1 or even possibly a newer version of Symbian. Please take no offence but i do find it very hard to believe SE are now basing ther leading testing and research in Australia. People like to make out they know more than they do and unfortunately half the time take bits of information and jump to unsupportable conclusions just to look like they are in the loop or more important then they really are.


Marc

_________________
Nokia E61, 2gb Sandisk, Fring, Tom Tom 6


Honoured to have won BEST DEBATER

[ This Message was edited by: Dogmann on 2007-09-19 09:48 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-19 10:37:09
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It is true that K850 can do VGA video recording. According to an insider, SE purposely disabled this feature as they do not want to confuse buyers. K850 is primarily a "cybershot" so the main objective is to focus buyers on the camera capability and not video. Even the K700, K750, K800, K810 are capable of doing QVGA and better video recording but SE chose to disable it for the same reason. SE is finalising with Sony to use the "HandyCam" brand and SE will re-release K850 with a VGA @30fps video recording but at the sametime will downscale the camera to 2 MP so as not to overshadow the video recording aspect. The insider also said that K850 camera is actually a 7MP unit but downscaled to 5MP as Sony was concerned that it will compete with Sony lines of digital camera. Also K850 hardware already has a built in wifi/gps/gaming chip but SE did not enable it in the firmware now because it is not the opportune time to do so yet as the cellphone market is still crazy over music phones. SE will immediately activate these advanced in the firmware once the market opportunity arises.





[ This Message was edited by: mib1800 on 2007-09-19 10:31 ]
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Posted: 2007-09-19 11:30:49
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VGA resolution requires a good graphics chip, NOT a processor. Thats what i know for sure.
The amount of FPS in a video that a phone can churn out depends on its CPU, thats not for sure though.
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Posted: 2007-09-19 11:32:21
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@dogmann
that p990 firmware talk was true. had a so called p990 reunion in greece during the year and it was supposed to go ahead, why it didnt im not sure. Im sure Ares will confirm this meeting too.....

oh, btw, never said this person was Aussie, though im sure australia do know what goes on in the company overseas. After all, its all

again, your choice whether you want to believe this or not. i for one do...
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Posted: 2007-09-19 12:20:09
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Okay......

Prom1 my statement was not made to you...or to >500, or thecoolsha...directly. Yourself...I don't know if you are quoting VGA capability from a founded source or not, tbh......but I DO know from where the others are getting their information, and it was to those sources(via the posters here, if necessary) I was aiming the challenge......

What I have, or where I stand in relation to others, I don't think is the point here; it wasn't even considered by myself when making the statement(although, I doubt very much that anyone with a retail, warranted T650(K850's not available right now) would be prepared to risk WSODing it trying to make it record VGA video with prototype firmware). I'm sorry if you felt it was.
But this isn't a light subject for SE owners, it's ~two years since W900(with specific tailored hardware) could manage QVGA/30fps recording, and so many people have been crying out for half decent video capability......yet SE has decided we're not worthy, and can put up with QCIF/15fps......
......and at the same time, these insiders are saying 'oh, but SE's phones CAN record VGA, they were doing it in the labs'......that's going to cheer up people who have just bought/received on contract their new phone(and are moaning because it CAN'T do decent video), isn't it......
{I Emailed SE last year, when I got my K800, about the fact that Eldar's prototype K8 had TrackID, and retail phones didn't. Their reply?? 'This may be implemented in future software updates' The actuality?? SE kept it out of K800 firmware, then put it IN......to K810 firmware......hmmm, so they expect joe public to purchase a whole new device, to get one UI feature......}
And that's what is winding me up. I assume you're aware of the modified camera drivers available for K800, yes?? It's already possible using these, to get K800/810 to record at 30fps...in fact just last week(or the week before), someone rewrote the K550 driver, and even THAT can record in 24fps(with a maximum of ~31fps, when the recording was analysed - the threads are in the software section, if you want to read them)! These drivers ALSO specify the recording resolution, however, it was depressing to find that, even when set to QVGA res, the capability has been limited by SE, in the MAIN firmware(drivers are in the filsystem side, hence modifyable)......to QCIF......
......which of course adds to the tension when the 'VGA capabilty' statement keeps getting shouted about by people with insider sources......

Also worth consideration: I have SHARP 904SH sat here with me, their 18 month-old(before even N93), DB2020 processored flagship cameraphone. WITHOUT any special INVIDIA processor, it can record VGA video(although I can't test it, I don't have a VodaKK simcard), albeit, I believe, at 15fps......but it's quite possible. And this phone runs same processor as SEs, and is based on the same Operating System, OSE.
I also have here right now, Samsung G600. With a WORSE processor than DB2020, even this phone can record VGA video(again only at 15fps).
Knowing this, are you happy that K850/T650 can apparently match their ability, but SE have locked out this ability, because they deem us not worthy?? Even worse, would you be prepared to wait until the replacement model comes along, before SE might actually realise it's possibly the most-demanded feature they're lacking, and allow VGA - of course, by which time, all the other manufacturers will probably be working on/releasing DVD/HD quality recording......and we'll still be told 'Oh, they CAN do it, they did it in the labs(but it been taken out of retail products)'......

And don't worry, I've been looking at this specific 'problem' for the last month or so(and challenging those with unfounded claims, ask >500 if you wish), and will continue to do so, until something concrete is proved, or disproved. I like cold, hard facts, and know for a fact, that when a corporation states what is or is not possible, they usually give the consumer the fob-off, as in this case......
......which makes it all the more annoying that those sources who claim VGA recording possible, cannot(or even worse, will not) provide anything more than this claim, even when they are in the best available position to do so(far better than someone like myself, for certain)......

I still would like to see this VGA-capable firmware, and will keep working at it(and if I CAN obtain it, I'll tell the world the results, they have a right to know)......but people who should know better should stop giving consumers false hopes, it's just not fair on them......

And SE should pull their fingers out(before they get left behind), period......


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Posted: 2007-09-19 14:10:12
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Sooooo will the K850 record as well as a N95?
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Posted: 2007-09-19 14:28:07
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No because K850 records at QVGA and N95 at VGA
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Posted: 2007-09-19 14:55:18
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guyss.. i don't think this thread is helping us in anyway.. what we need is the phone is ACTUALLY can record @VGA 30 fps in the RETAIL version, not the one in the lab.. i don't give my damm about the K850 ability in lab... well.. because of the same reason.. i am not going to buy SE phone at least 2-3 years from now, if the situation gets better.. in the meanwhile.. i will look for some great-cheap nokia offers.
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Posted: 2007-09-19 15:34:21
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