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It has been showing that thermal affects cause numbness, dizziness, headaches and other affects when used for more than 20-30 minutes at a stretch. This is proven. The extract you linked to only says that there is no evidence that non-thermal affects cause cancer. Non thermal affects include emissions from base stations and emissions from handsets at a foot or more distance.
Thermal affects however include holding the phone within inches of your head, or standing within a foot of a base station. Thermal affects from close range radio emissions have been shown to induce problems with cell replication in tissue cultures at these proximities over periods of 30-60 minutes. This is a fact and not news paper sensationalism.
Cell replication problems over time = tumours. Because the human body is very good at repairing itself, it may be that substantial exposure over extended periods of time is needed before tumours will form. This would explain why the evidence (which does exist) only shows a weak link and not a substantial one.
This would also mean that it's possible to get a cancer from mobile phone use, but also very unlikely for all but the most excessive users.
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Posted: 2008-01-08 03:10:05
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@max
Aha, that's precisly the point!
Non-thermal effects cannot be proven to cause cancer.
Thermal effects are where heat causes a change in the behaviour of the cells. Mobile phones, especially the digital devices which are common for quite some time now have not been proven to cause thermal effects.
Sunburn is a thermal effect, caused by radiation from the sun. The result can become skin cancer. No-one gets skin cancer from a cell phone.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-01-09 13:36 ]
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Posted: 2008-01-08 22:32:20
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Carkitter is right. No destructive thermal effect has been demonstrated using mobile phone frequencies and intensities (usually the temp increase is around 0.01 degrees celsius) . Most reasearch points to non thermal effects as the cause of damage. This includes the non themral and chronic activation of heat shock protein pathways which some hypothesis could cause cancer under certain circumstances: Long frequent exposure (in the extreme). This is still a hypothesis, not fact, and research is still being carried out. If any more information is required then a google scholar search for 'mobile phone thermal effects' will bring up a list of abstracts (which are full summaries of the paper btw).
As a side note. The last I read about mobile phones causing nausea was related to the workings of the ear and effects of loud volume for long periods of time.
[ This Message was edited by: d3nja on 2008-01-09 14:46 ]
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Posted: 2008-01-09 15:45:09
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On 2008-01-08 22:32:20, carkitter wrote:
@max
Aha, that's precisly the point!
Non-thermal effects cannot be proven to cause cancer.
Thermal effects are where heat causes a change in the behaviour of the cells. Mobile phones, especially the digital devices which are common for quite some time now have not been proven to cause thermal effects.
Sunburn is a thermal effect, caused by radiation from the sun. The result can become skin cancer. No-one gets skin cancer from a cell phone.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-01-09 13:36 ]
Cell phones have been proven to cause thermal heating of human cell tissues, and also replication faults after periods of half an hour or more. Frustratingly I can't find that particular research, but I have read it before, I'm certainly not making it up.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11206998?dopt=Abstract
Also the evidence of headaches, nausea and other affects is also well documented
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12445512?dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9441959?dopt=Abstract
http://electricwords.emfacts.com/ch142393.html
http://electricwords.emfacts.com/index-Head.html
The fact is, there is lot's of research to suggest health implications related to the use of mobile phones. Just because there is no "proof" as yet of doesn't mean it's not happening.
Personally I believe the risk of getting a tumour from mobile phone use is very slim. However other problems such as headaches, dizziness, confusion and other reported affects are I think quite common. And people suffering these effects deserve to know if it is their mobile phone or not.
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Posted: 2008-01-10 00:38:41
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On 2008-01-10 00:38:41, max_wedge wrote:
The fact is, there is lot's of research to suggest health implications related to the use of mobile phones. Just because there is no "proof" as yet of doesn't mean it's not happening.
The fact is, medical research is an industry where scientists and medical researchers need to think up a potential problem which needs to be studied further and then present this as a public danger in order to convince Public Health authorities to part with government money to fund their research. In other words, their jobs are at stake here. It doesn't take much to get the alarmist media onside either...
If negative effects haven't been proven then some researchers will tell you more research (which means more money) is needed until proof is found.
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[ This Message was edited by: carkitter on 2008-01-11 06:27 ]
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Posted: 2008-01-11 07:10:22
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I suppose the same argument can be applied to smoking, ie: smoking doesn't cause cancer because there was no proof that it did for many years? (despite the fact that now in hindsight it's quite obvious, AND provable?)
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Posted: 2008-01-11 08:28:26
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I'd be a bit worried about any researcher who couldn't find a link between smoking and lung cancer, emphysema, stomach cancer and a host of other side effects of inhaling tar vapour, arsenic, carbon monoxide, lead, etc.
If however you wrappped your k800 in paper, set it alight and inhaled the vapour you might, over several years of repeated exposure develop cancer but it wouldn't be in the brain...
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Posted: 2008-01-11 09:01:35
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On 2008-01-11 09:01:35, carkitter wrote:
I'd be a bit worried about any researcher who couldn't find a link between smoking and lung cancer, emphysema, stomach cancer and a host of other side effects of inhaling tar vapour, arsenic, carbon monoxide, lead, etc.
If however you wrappped your k800 in paper, set it alight and inhaled the vapour you might, over several years of repeated exposure develop cancer but it wouldn't be in the brain...
Researchers denied there was any evidence of a link between cancer and smoking for atleast 30 years before eventually it was just too obvious to ignore. It took 30 years of statistics, and eventual clinical proof, to convince people. Before that the average person, and most respected scientists, poo-poo'd the idea that there might be a link between people who smoke and the cancers they were getting.
Infact, like now with mobiles, they often used the example that most people who smoke don't get cancer, therefore it's unlikely that it's the smoking that's causing the cancers in those smokers who do get cancer. But after 30-40 years, it turned out that most people who smoke DO get cancers (or other really crappy smoking related diseases) rather than the other way around.
I'm NOT arguing that mobiles will cause cancer in every mobile phone user. I'm only arguing that there is enough statistical evidence that some people are getting cancers as a consequence of mobile phone use to warrant continuing to study the issue with an open mind. There is not enough evidence to proove carcinogenic affects, but lack of proof does not proove that there is no link at all. The issue deserves closer attention IMHO.
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Posted: 2008-01-11 10:21:48
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Check this out but it says
if mobiles can cause cancer? But this site denies that.
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Posted: 2008-01-15 11:19:06
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apparently the danish study wasn't very effectively conducted.
See the section titled "Flawed Danish Study Reports Cell Phones are Safe"
in this link
http://www.lef.org/magazine/m[....]ort_cellphone_radiation_01.htm
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Posted: 2008-01-23 14:15:15
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