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Yoo, but since you just write that something is "better" without any single example what is this really,
so here was my answer,
and alternatives we all know and accept. Alternative does not automatically equals better BTW.
Write something more reasonable or accept answers on the same level of "yooohooohooo-iness", no?
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Posted: 2009-04-18 00:51:49
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Good point, well made, sorry if i sounded a bit shallow, i guess just very fed up trying to be loyal to what i once percieved as a brilliant brand, god knows i waited long enough for the X-1, its just that in my mind, its flawed in some very irritating ways, anyhow, dont want to upset the apple cart.
Sorry.
In my mind im compiling a list of the things i think that the HTC does better, promise that i will get round to posting them.
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Posted: 2009-04-21 00:12:53
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Internally the Touch Pro and the X1 are virtually identical. The real differences (aside from screen configuration) are all down to the software - the ROM - and that's where HTC were always bound to win, since they've been customising WinMo builds a lot longer than SE. And let's face it, the Panels concept was always weak and very poorly realised (the "real" panels have never materialised after all).

One decent interface (TouchFlo) is a lot better than multiple half-hearted attempts at the same thing (Panels). But don't mistake me for an HTC fanboy - for me the iPhone interface tramples all over the lot.
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Posted: 2009-04-21 10:49:38
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Let me just say that your "statement" has no sign of any definite truth or fact. There's nothing to "face"..

Many users at xda - icluding me - will say something completely opposite - TouchFlo is a nice looking, multi page thing without ANY real customization possibilities,
opposed to SE Panels which can stuff maximum info and usability on one page. As for me nothing could be better and I use it everyday. And you can make completely different desktops including what you want.

In opposition you discuss iPhone interface with 0 options for customization. It doesn't even have a "desktop" or "menu" distinction.
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Posted: 2009-04-21 11:51:18
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If you like. Only, the "real" panels as described and displayed in all the pre-launch publicity and demos never have materialised, that's simple fact. With a few very minor exceptions they aren't live, they don't update, they're a poor imitation of the advertised functionality.



Many other users at XDA - as you know - would swear allegiance to Touchflo. The problem with boasting about "customisation possibilities" is that not everyone feels the desire to customise in the same way - Touchflo certainly can be customised to various user preferences, but at the end of the day its an interface designed to allow easy access to the core phone functions, no more and no less, and there's nothing wrong with that. SE's Panels' in comparison are not even that - they are an interface on top of an interface, a means to choose between different UIs, and while some people (including yourself) may find that useful, to others its an inconvenience - an unneccesary middle man that simply gets in the way.



And again its that simplicity that provides its all conquering strength. The menu is the desktop, and vice versa. Notifications of new messages/emails etc are there at a glance, I can place any icon wherever I want, and I can access any app I need quicker than it takes you to even open a single Panel.
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Posted: 2009-04-21 12:53:23
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Well, I didn't state that "every X1 user would say Panels are great" at all,
I just point your statement regarding "fact" about panel which are not facts but opinions of - big - user's group.
As well as some love TFlo and that's great, everybody uses what one likes.

There's no faster way of accessing app than from SE Panel, it's a blast. So I don't know what you mean, I also compared it and it's definitely faster than iPhone (as you bring this argument here).

Regarding different panels - they have their specific functionality and it's serves great. Nobody uses panels just the same way as app launchers.
You miss the point a bit here.

As for iPhone again, I don't argue (and care) if it's good or not,
It can be great or whatever.
But discussing different UI's concepts and giving the example of device which actually has no UI (besides apps) and is completely non-customizable, is hard to be regarded as reasonable.

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Posted: 2009-04-21 13:11:36
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No, but you tried to use the fact that some would as an argument against TouchFlo, which is just nonsense thinking.



But the "fact" I was pointing out was that the realisation of the panel concept was poor - and it is. The Panels you have on your X1 are not the "Active Panels" that were advertised and much vaunted by SE and others in the build up to the X1's launch (as testified by this thread) - that's not a matter of opinion, it is actual fact.

Whether or not you personally like the panels as they are isn't actually relevant to that point.



One page of the iPhone's menu holds up to 20 apps (including the four docked at the bottom). Any of those app icons can be "active" in the sense that they show at a glance if there are messages waiting, and so on. So when I unlock the phone, I can immediately see the status of, and select any of my 20 most used apps, instantly, and have it open in front of me in the exceptionally short time it takes that app to load. Another 16 apps are just a flick away, a further 16 in two flicks, and so on.

With the Panels, you have a choice of what - 9? Maximum? At least some of which will be taken up not by useful apps in themselves, but secondary UIs, menus and desktops, through which you must transit on the way to accessing the function you want. Perhaps you can explain to me how that can possibly be quicker, easier, or more efficient than the iPhone's home screen?



Still a choice of 9 versus 20 though, right?



Is describing the iPhone as "a device which actually has no UI" reasonable? Or sane?
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Posted: 2009-04-21 14:03:15
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Sorry, are we writing about the same device??
'Cos the completely wrong info you give here is not making a discussion sensible in any way and is not validating your comments.

SE Panel itself has completely customizable active elements, which you can re-orgranise or delete.
What "9"? Sorry but get informed better before you write things out-of-the cloud.
SE Panel can contain 50 apps icons. Or no icons at all etc...
Launching the app from it is a breeze.

As I wrote, Panel is not only an app, but the organization of apps/shortcuts what makes oprations faster. You organize yourself few panels and they provide a needed working pattern of your choice.
It works like a computer.

Writing "iPhone has no UI" - well, as I wrote, besides the pages with icons it has NO UI! No plugins, no menus, folders, nothing, you can add nothing there. Just reorganize the order. So where is the UI there really?


BTW, my argument that "some like it" is absolutely valid since you used the same phrase before, also adding yourself who also "likes" something. We always write about "some".

I use daily 4 different Panels which are organized in completely usable way.
Instead of reverting countless pages of apps....
In the end your argument that SE Panels don't give what was advertised made me a bit funny - what was your reaction to iPhone not meeting basic demands, opposed to what was advertised?
I ask this silly question just because you just can't stop your Apple "religion",
on X1 forum.

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Posted: 2009-04-21 14:52:40
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Yes, we are. The difference is I'm talking the SE Panels interface in its totality, and you're choosing (at a late stage) to switch tack and start comparing other UIs to the possibilities of a single Panel. Which is nonsense, since none of the individual Panels are actually any more functional than a standard Windows Mobile app, they're simply framed to sit within the overall Panels interface.



9 = 9 Panels. I think you, and the rest of this thread, already understand that perfectly well. The multiple Panels (9 of them) are, after all, the single differentiating factor between the X1 and any other WM phone. The point I'm making is that Panel selection is simply an unnecessary complication. You don't need to choose between 9 UI's when you have just one that works fine.

It's quite telling that you don't want to talk about the Panels interface itself, and just concentrate (pointlessly) on the possible attributes of a particular single panel. I might as well choose to compare the iPhone interface to Windows Mobile's default Today screen, that's a single panel too..



No, it works like a horribly overcomplicated imitation of a desktop computer, crammed into a phone with a 3 inch screen. The analogy doesn't work in any sense, it just gets in the way.



The letters "UI" don't stand for "plugins, menus, and folders" - they stand for User Interface. As it happens, the iPhone is quite famous for having a very well regarded user interface, which of course does include many menus, but is also laid out in a logical and intuitive way, and actually helps the user literally interface with the phone and all its functions in the most accessable, efficient, and pleasurable way.

On the iPhone, I don't need to wade through a selection of Panels to see if I have a text message, it's right there on the screen. I don't need three different clocks (complete with Goldfish) as the time is permanently present on the title bar. Everything from the single button on the front that closes apps and takes me back to the homescreen, to the way the screen shuts off when I hold the phone to my ear, to the way I can answer a call with one swipe of my finger, is the "UI" of the iPhone. And yes, I'll take the 20 immediately available shortcuts to my favourite apps over 9 separate ways to look at the same thing any day...



No, your argument that the realisation of the Panel concept couldn't be poor because some people liked it wasn't valid, the fact that they liked it doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work as advertised.



Not just a silly question, a nonsense question, since the iPhone's met all the claims of its advertising. Yes there are some extra features that some people would have liked the iPhone to have, no those features have never been advertised or promised by Apple (aside from those actually coming in the next OS release in June).

But as for my Apple "religion", I may as well point out that I started out talking about HTC, Touchflo and the Touch Pro vs the X1. It's telling how quickly you yourself dropped any interest in that and set about failing to prove your X1 superior to the iPhone.
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Posted: 2009-04-21 15:31:16
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That's the point - it does NOT work "like a horribly overcomplicated imitation of a desktop computer".
It's again your personal-tasty opinion, not a "fact".
It acts like a highly practical working environment.
As I said before, I use everyday up to 4 different panels and it's NOT the same as app or it's not the same as having ONE today screen.


The same simplicity goes on X1 so again what are you talking about?
Or even better, 'cos I cam answer the call one handed without any (IMO useless) swipe,
but just click one button.
The time is also permanently visible on my title bar..
Etcetera.

Who told you those "horrible" stories about WM complicated operation on X1?
It's out of the cloud again. Without any facts.

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Posted: 2009-04-21 22:24:37
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